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RE: Origin of Matter
June 5, 2017 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: June 5, 2017 at 4:35 pm by Alex K.)
@ RedSox
If the total energy is zero, you can have a distribution of this net zero by having positive energy in one place and a deficit in another.
I don't think quantum fluctuations can sensibly called a form of energy. They are a process.that occurs in nature I would say...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 5, 2017 at 7:20 pm
(This post was last modified: June 5, 2017 at 7:21 pm by ignoramus.)
Alex, putting myself in the mindset of a theist, think I know where he's coming from.
For a zero net sum early universe, he wants to know why the net zero isn't just " nothing".
Why does it have to be composed of 2 alternate energies resulting in a net zero.
Is this a theoretical explanation or is it occurring in nature constantly?
Is this argument a little like abiogenesis where we know we are here and hence work backwards to find a natural explanation? I assume neither can be proven or recreated in a lab.
OP, please know that if skyfairies exist, science will be the first to let you know, I promise.
Lots of nobels to go around when the time comes... Until then, don't waste your time with bronze age fairy tales.
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Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 5, 2017 at 9:55 pm
(June 5, 2017 at 4:35 pm)Alex K Wrote: @RedSox
If the total energy is zero, you can have a distribution of this net zero by having positive energy in one place and a deficit in another.
I don't think quantum fluctuations can sensibly called a form of energy. They are a process.that occurs in nature I would say...
What is the origin of the positive energy? Are quantum fluctuations a process that occurs that produces positive energy? Thanks.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 5, 2017 at 10:42 pm
BTW, and I never tire of pointing this out, none of you have any experience with unadulterated matter.
Really.
The stuff you're familiar with is a roughly 60/40 mix of 'actual' matter and the mass equivalent to the energy of motion and binding together of those particles making up the ~60%.
So, let's all stand back and take in what we might perceive if we could in fact, actually fondle a piece of 100% pure matter with no admixture of energy at all.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 12:00 am
Matter is, and likely always has been. Wrap your head around that. Don't need a deity. I think it's mind boggling enough that we actually exist without assigning credit/blame.
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 12:06 am
(June 5, 2017 at 9:55 pm)RedSox Wrote: What is the origin of the positive energy? Are quantum fluctuations a process that occurs that produces positive energy? Thanks.
First, give us ' your' understanding of 'quantum fluctuations'.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 12:13 am
(June 5, 2017 at 10:42 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: BTW, and I never tire of pointing this out, none of you have any experience with unadulterated matter.
Really.
The stuff you're familiar with is a roughly 60/40 mix of 'actual' matter and the mass equivalent to the energy of motion and binding together of those particles making up the ~60%.
So, let's all stand back and take in what we might perceive if we could in fact, actually fondle a piece of 100% pure matter with no admixture of energy at all.
 If you think that I'm interested in touching matter with NO energy in it, think again!
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 12:28 am
We have to be careful about boxing reality into categories that we can conceive. No matter how successful our models and concepts are - and no matter how confident some people are that we are getting near a complete understanding - there's just no way to know what future conceptions we might have.
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 3:38 am
(June 5, 2017 at 9:55 pm)RedSox Wrote: (June 5, 2017 at 4:35 pm)Alex K Wrote: @RedSox
If the total energy is zero, you can have a distribution of this net zero by having positive energy in one place and a deficit in another.
I don't think quantum fluctuations can sensibly called a form of energy. They are a process.that occurs in nature I would say...
What is the origin of the positive energy? Are quantum fluctuations a process that occurs that produces positive energy? Thanks.
Quantum flucuations is a term that is thrown around a lot, and I want to avoid the impression that it is a catch-all term for obfuscation a la "it's a miracle". The term has a precise definition. In quantum physics (i.e. in physics once you look close enough) most if not all quantities seem to be intrinsically uncertain. Take any quantity such as the velocity of a particle. Try as you may to give it a precise velocity from the outset, it will only lead to an uncertainty in its position, seemingly existing in many places at once until it is observed, which in turn spoils any velocity measurement. The fields that are present in otherwise empty space are subject to the same thing. If you try to imbue them with a value of precisely zero, they automatically will have a rate of change that renders them non-zero. Likewise, the fields governing the geometry of spacetime can be assumed to be subject to this, and one effect of that is that the universe can spontaneously expand and dump all the excess energy into its own contents in the form of particles.
If you ask me why do these fields exist and why are the dynamics such that these fluctuations occur, I'd have to say nobody knows probably.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 3:55 am
(June 5, 2017 at 7:20 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Alex, putting myself in the mindset of a theist, think I know where he's coming from.
For a zero net sum early universe, he wants to know why the net zero isn't just " nothing".
Why does it have to be composed of 2 alternate energies resulting in a net zero.
Is this a theoretical explanation or is it occurring in nature constantly?
Is this argument a little like abiogenesis where we know we are here and hence work backwards to find a natural explanation? I assume neither can be proven or recreated in a lab.
OP, please know that if skyfairies exist, science will be the first to let you know, I promise.
Lots of nobels to go around when the time comes... Until then, don't waste your time with bronze age fairy tales.
It is ocurring in nature constantly. The particle-antiparticle pairs which constantly appear in the vacuum due to the uncertainty of matter fields do basically the same thing.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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