"Cultural Appropriation"

[Crunchy]

I can certainly understand people being victimized but I don't see how that happens with the taking and/or modifying of cultural ideas into something new and different.

I think that we probably have different ideas about what is meant by the term "cultural appropriation". 

For example, the Cleveland Indians logo has been used as an example of cultural appropriation... but it's not. Natives never depicted themselves as such so that is not part of their culture and was therefore not appropriated. The logo itself is offensive and should be voluntarily removed in my opinion so that constitutes insulting imagery and not cultural appropriation.

Another example would be the removal and sale of artifacts. But again, I see that as straight up theft of items, not cultural appropriation.

So what does it mean to you when you hear that?

I'm not talking about stuff like that . I'm talking about stuff like taking my tribes sacred symbols our language our art  acting they  invented it . Trampling all over it's  cultural meaning and then profiting off of it . And I'm not even going to get started about the governments attempt to essentially erase my culture. Something we had to fight hard to get back . Sorry if I sound hostile but it's something that steams me off .

Ok, I think that we do have different definitions of cultural appropriation then. To me it is the same as cultural exchange and this applies even when some are unhappy with the exchange. For instance, it may  piss you off that someone outside the culture embraces inuit art and starts creating their own versions and selling it while other inuit may not mind at all and take part in the exchange. Like the dreamcatcher for instance. It is rather comic and uninformed that people sometimes hang them from their rearview mirror, (are they planning on sleeping at the wheel?) but how exactly does that harm you? 

I certainly agree with your anger at attempts to erase your culture, but that could hardly be called appropriation. I would call that cultural genocide.

There is simply no way to stop people from seeing things around them and incorporating those things they are attracted to into their lives. Even the art and ideas and symbols of other cultures. That to me is what cultural appropriation is. I can certainly understand the anger caused by the treatment of aboriginals, but poor/criminal treatment is not the same as incorporating those cultural ideas one finds desirable and or attractive IMO.

[The Grand Nudger]

You know, you might have guessed that cultural appropriation and cultural exchange weren't the same thing..what with people using distinct terms to refer to separate and disparate phenomena......where have you been getting your information?


Cultural exchange is fine (I'd even go so far as to call it inevitable and necessary). When that cultural "exchange" is one sided and usory........it ceases to be exchange, or fine. A people taking what they like from some culture, changing it to suite their purposes, claiming it in a sense, in effect, or overtly...and discarding both the culture and the people from which it originated. Cultural appropriation, cultural misappropriation, etc.

Raid and motherfucking pillage, lol. It may even be that thi raiding and pillaging, distinct from being amelting poit (as it were) is baked in to humanity...and it;s difficult to stop it from happening...just as it;s difficult to stop people from cultural exchange (and probably for the same reasons in both cases)...but it's still cultural appropriation. The relative ease of preventing it does not change what it is.

[Anon2381]

I think intent should be the focus. Billie Holiday sang a song called "Strange Fruit" which depicted the lynching of two black men hanging from trees dripping blood. Actually it was written by a white jewish guy. When our orange president couldn't find any musicians to play at his inauguration, he asked Rebecca Ferguson to perform. Her reply was "Only if I can sing strange fruit".
Dana Shutz is a white artist who is famous for a piece called "open casket". 14 year old Emmitt Hill was brutally murdered for supposedly whistling at a white woman. Years later she said she had lied! Emmitt's mom insisted on an open casket, because her beautiful boy was mutilated. Dana Shutz was immediately accused of cultural appropriation.
We have been so concerned about not offending that we loose sight of the good in humanity. How alike our different cultures are when it comes down to the heart of things. When I read about Emmitt Tills death years ago it began an angst and anger inside me that wanted to make people aware of these cruel acts. After the election someone shot 50 plus bullets through the memorial sign where his body was found. FUCKERS!

[Neo-Scholastic]

There is nothing oppressive  about protecting what's ours .

Nobody owns culture.

The SJW logic is convoluted and arbitrary. If they were consistent they wouldn't, among countless other things, wear blue jeans - the product of working-class Italian immigrants who sewed their pants out of blue-dyed denim from Genoa (from which we get "jeans"). Nearly all forms of pop-music in the West are derived from Afro-American influences. Guess they'd have to stop listening to those or even composing music in Western chord structures, too. No more yoga classes for urban yuppie types. How dare anyone learn another language other than their native tongue! Or even use loan words from other cultures!

[The Grand Nudger]

Hmn, nobody owns culture?  Maybe you ought to tell that to the people taking back america, in order to make it great again.....?  

Funhouse mirrors.

The SJW logic is convoluted and arbitrary.

I think you mean that your logic is convoluted and arbitrary, it; only "sjw" logic in that you've attributed it to them......lol.

 If they were consistent they wouldn't, among countless other things, wear blue jeans - the product of working-class Italian immigrants who sewed their pants out of blue-dyed denim from Genoa (from which we get "jeans"). Nearly all forms of pop-music in the West are derived from Afro-American influences. Guess they'd have to stop listening to those or even composing music in Western chord structures, too. No more yoga classes for urban yuppie types. How dare anyone learn another language other than their native tongue! Or even use loan words from other cultures!

Why, why wouldn't they do or buy any of these things?  All that's required to fulfill -actual- sjw logic is some recognition of how we ended up with those things.  Not all of them, ofc, were cultural appropriation.  Some were cultural exchange.  Pop music..is this country, wasn't one of those things.  It was an issue of a performers whiteness being the only difference between commercial success and failure.  Elvis, were he actually black or gay...would have been a commercial failure.  

I have to ask, though, is there anything in your comments that disputes that this -was- cultural appropriation..or are you content with calling "sjw's" hypocrites while we raid and pillage?

[vorlon13]

Cultural appropriation is a 'white thing' and it's racist to complain about them doing it.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Not all of them, ofc, were cultural appropriation.  Some were cultural exchange.  

A difference without a difference. I take that back, people only call it appropriation in order to shame others into submission.

 All that's required to fulfill -actual- sjw logic is some recognition of how we ended up with those things

So now its a form of oppression to either be ignorant of or disagree with the narrative others would impose on you.

[The Grand Nudger]

Not all of them, ofc, were cultural appropriation.  Some were cultural exchange.  

A difference without a difference. I take that back, people only call it appropriation in order to shame others into submission.

The usual suspects offer the usual deflections.  The difference has been described to you.  The difference is denoted in the definitions.  The difference can be seen in real world examples of exchange and appropriation.  

 All that's required to fulfill -actual- sjw logic is some recognition of how we ended up with those things

So now its a form of oppression to either be ignorant of or disagree with the narrative others would impose on you.

It's a form of cultural apathy when a person is in ignorance...but it's a form of broad antipathy when a person pretends to be in ignorance...as you are doing now.  Not only has this shitty thing been done...people who very clearly represent the mindset that did it tell you it never happened..and that further, you're an asshole for bringing it up.

[FatAndFaithless]

I think this is another one of those terms that's used very often by people with vastly different definitions. It's like "SJW".. there isn't a set definition and people use it so broadly that it's almost meaningless on its own.

[vorlon13]

Is "cultural appropriation" a corollary to 'Uncle Tom" ??