Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 6:36 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
#11
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 12:10 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:
(June 26, 2017 at 10:35 am)SteveII Wrote: 1. Belief that you are being led by God is not the same as being lead by God. 
2. The NT was the last complete revelation from God (which includes saying that it is the last complete revelation from God until the end of time). It has everything in it to have judged the actions of burning witches as entirely contrary to the will of God. 
3. C.S. Lewis was explaining, not excusing. Failure to understand [2] does not create the problem you think it does.
4. The Holy Spirit does not control what people believe and certainly does not stop people from murder.
And the Holy Spirit apparently didn't control what was written in the bible. Exodus 22:18.

Again, how do you know that you are being led by god if belief is no guarantee that you are?

You are taking a command written to the Jewish people living under a theocracy thousands of years ago and trying to apply it to people that it was not directed toward not in the setting that it was written in. 

One way of knowing that you are NOT led by God is if the action is contrary to the teachings found in the NT. Can you think of any historical atrocity that would not have been avoided if that were followed?
Reply
#12
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(June 26, 2017 at 12:10 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: And the Holy Spirit apparently didn't control what was written in the bible. Exodus 22:18.

Again, how do you know that you are being led by god if belief is no guarantee that you are?

You are taking a command written to the Jewish people living under a theocracy thousands of years ago and trying to apply it to people that it was not directed toward not in the setting that it was written in. 

One way of knowing that you are NOT led by God is if the action is contrary to the teachings found in the NT. Can you think of any historical atrocity that would not have been avoided if that were followed?

Well, if we turned the other cheek at the battle of Hastings, we'd all be Muslim right now, so...
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?

---

There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Reply
#13
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 12:14 pm)Astonished Wrote:
(June 26, 2017 at 12:09 pm)SteveII Wrote: 1. I hesitate to respond because I really don't really care for your version of a discussion, but I will give it a shot...
2. It's really hard to give you verse or two because it is the entire conclusion of the NT that it is the final revelation of God. After 2000 years of promising, God himself, in the person of Jesus, came to earth to pay our penalty in order to bridge the gap back to God so that we can have a relationship with him now and forever. Following the acceptance of the proffered gift, it is complete with instructions on how to conduct oneself. The next thing to expect is the second coming of Jesus. The exclusivity claims and exhaustive nature of the message is present in almost every chapter of the NT. 
3. If you want to argue about conclusions of Christian teachings, you have to start with correctly understanding what those teaching are. I don't really care if you believe them or not. NT Christianity could never be construed to burn witches...period.
4. One of the responsibilities of the Holy Spirit is to make sure God's message is conveyed clearly and unmistakably and therefore that is why the NT is complete in it's description of the human condition, remedy for that condition, and guidance on how to conduct ourselves. If one chooses not to read it, who's fault is that?

Wow, I thought you were just naive but you're actually completely full of shit. You're just another biblical ignoramus who doesn't want to admit to all the contradictions and unwisdom of the damn thing (not to mention Jeebus was supposed to come back in the lifetime of his followers...and Jeebus wasn't even able to fulfill all the prophecies he was supposed to...and wasn't named what the Messiah was supposed to be named...but those are just those little inconvenient truths you like to pretend don't exist.) How do you not realize this is what makes it so hard to take you seriously from the start? You make way too many assumptions and underestimate the knowledge of your opponents, so what do you expect?

Do you really think there are not answers to your petty little objections? Do you think because you have read some atheist blog with a list of supposed problems with Christianity that you know what you are talking about? Do you think that writing 'Jeebus' does anything other than show you lack character?
Reply
#14
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 12:39 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(June 26, 2017 at 12:14 pm)Astonished Wrote: Wow, I thought you were just naive but you're actually completely full of shit. You're just another biblical ignoramus who doesn't want to admit to all the contradictions and unwisdom of the damn thing (not to mention Jeebus was supposed to come back in the lifetime of his followers...and Jeebus wasn't even able to fulfill all the prophecies he was supposed to...and wasn't named what the Messiah was supposed to be named...but those are just those little inconvenient truths you like to pretend don't exist.) How do you not realize this is what makes it so hard to take you seriously from the start? You make way too many assumptions and underestimate the knowledge of your opponents, so what do you expect?

Do you really think there are not answers to your petty little objections? Do you think because you have read some atheist blog with a list of supposed problems with Christianity that you know what you are talking about? Do you think that writing 'Jeebus' does anything other than show you lack character?

Do you really think any answer any Xtian has ever provided, EVER, has not been thoroughly debunked? For fuck's sake, if even ONE of your horseshit arguments held water, we'd all be Xtians. And I call him Jeebus because you shouldn't idolize the person and any object of idolatry should be torn down. The identity of a speaker or writer is irrelevant. That you can't seem to separate the person from the ideas is just one of your many problems but religions seem to have a special affinity for doing that more than any other form of hero-worship.

And how dare you call them petty when your faith is responsible for more atrocities than history will ever know? Commit the No True Scotsman fallacy all you like, but because you're all rooted in an irrational way of looking at the world, and are too fucking cowardly to think for yourselves, you don't get to say you're any better than the suicide bomber in the Middle East. If you're the drunk driver who makes it home safe, you're not the moral superior to the one who runs someone over.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?

---

There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
Reply
#15
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
Something that doesn't exist can't do shit and nobody can lead you anywhere you don't choose to follow.
Reply
#16
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 12:09 pm)SteveII Wrote: 1. I hesitate to respond because I really don't really care for your version of a discussion, but I will give it a shot...
2. It's really hard to give you verse or two because it is the entire conclusion of the NT that it is the final revelation of God. After 2000 years of promising, God himself, in the person of Jesus, came to earth to pay our penalty in order to bridge the gap back to God so that we can have a relationship with him now and forever. Following the acceptance of the proffered gift, it is complete with instructions on how to conduct oneself. The next thing to expect is the second coming of Jesus. The exclusivity claims and exhaustive nature of the message is present in almost every chapter of the NT. 
3. If you want to argue about conclusions of Christian teachings, you have to start with correctly understanding what those teaching are. I don't really care if you believe them or not. NT Christianity could never be construed to burn witches...period.
4. One of the responsibilities of the Holy Spirit is to make sure God's message is conveyed clearly and unmistakably and therefore that is why the NT is complete in it's description of the human condition, remedy for that condition, and guidance on how to conduct ourselves. If one chooses not to read it, who's fault is that?
Nothing in the NT nullifies the killing of witches. In fact, Jesus says...
Matthew 5:18 Wrote:For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I'm not texting from an alternate universe, so apparently heaven and earth haven't passed yet. This thing about witches seems to be one of those little jots and tittles that some Christians wish would pass.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.

I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
Reply
#17
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
The message of the Holy Spirit is always true.  Individuals who perform evil in the name of the Holy Spirit are not following him.  Do some people commit evil in the name of God?  Sure.  People commit evil in the name of many things and may even think they're doing the right thing.  We should always check our desires against scripture.  In the case of burning witches, the bible doesn't condone it.  It may have been commanded to the old testament Israelites, but not to us.  God's covenant with Moses had it's purposes and his covenant with his followers after the cross has it's purposes.
Reply
#18
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 9:47 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: C. S. Lewis excuses the church for burning witches by saying that they truly believed in witches. He tells us that if we believed there were actually women who had sold their souls to Satan and were going around causing mischief, we would still be burning them, so we can’t judge those people by modern sentiments.

He forgets one little thing. The bible says…

”Exodus 22:18” Wrote:Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

That cold mean one of four things.
1. The Holy Spirit didn’t know there’s no such thing as witches when he moved the biblical writer to pen this passage.
2. The Holy Spirit knew but for his own purposes decided to allow his church to believe a lie for millennia.
3. Millennia of Christians misinterpreted this passage which doesn’t actually say there are witches.
4. Man wrote the bible and the Holy Spirit is as fanciful as witches.

Millions of women were sadistically murdered because of this passage. Misinterpretation? But those witch hunters believed they were being led by god. Do you believe god is leading you? Do you believe you have the correct interpretation of the bible? So did they, so how do you know that thousands of years from now the Holy Spirit might decide to show the future church that you were wrong but they should not judge you for your error since you truly believe something?

You want to believe that the Holy Spirit would never allow you to believe what isn’t so. He did it with witches and I’ve been told he is the same today, yesterday and forever.

It probably wasn't millions of women but tens of thousands; some parts of Europe (around 75%) never saw a witch burning.

C.S. Lewis was, obviously, influenced heavily by the Enlightenment!  Look, if there really is an eternal Hell and everyone who dies in mortal or original sin goes there, then burning heretics, witches, etc., was a good thing, if such was truly for the salvation of people's souls!  How could it not have been?!
Reply
#19
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
[Image: jesus_20dick_203-500x375.jpg]
Love atheistforums.org? Consider becoming a patreon and helping towards our server costs.

[Image: 146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif]
Reply
#20
RE: Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?
(June 26, 2017 at 1:13 pm)Lek Wrote: The message of the Holy Spirit is always true.  . . . . . 

GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens.

GA 6:5 Bear your own burden.



Indeed.
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  UCKG: Church tells boy 'evil spirit' hides in him zebo-the-fat 1 319 December 11, 2023 at 4:51 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  The Holy War Johanabrahams 105 7938 July 17, 2020 at 9:11 am
Last Post: brewer
  The Holy Bible - fact or fiction? val5662 101 13015 March 28, 2017 at 7:54 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Holy Tree QuarkDriven 28 6813 July 23, 2015 at 12:30 am
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  What Exactly Does the Holy Spirit Do? Nope 92 16165 June 3, 2015 at 11:52 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Holy Stupid Cinjin 14 4494 April 27, 2015 at 10:56 am
Last Post: Esquilax
  Fish must be very holy Boris Karloff 99 23954 March 25, 2015 at 6:08 pm
Last Post: Smaug
  How often does the holy spirit talk to you? TubbyTubby 54 14584 March 20, 2015 at 9:30 pm
Last Post: Mudhammam
  This holy water thing is full of shit! Esquilax 35 12069 March 20, 2015 at 6:55 pm
Last Post: Ravenshire
  In order for Jesus to change your soul first he has to break your spirit. Zidneya 6 2276 August 1, 2014 at 2:18 am
Last Post: Minimalist



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)