After An Atheist Dies

[vorlon13]

Apart from donation, I never did understand why anyone would care about what happened to their own dead body. I mean, you're gonna be dead anyway... why not allow your loved ones who are still alive to do whatever will give them the most closure/peace?

No exception for me on that ??

[Brian37]

Apart from donation, I never did understand why anyone would care about what happened to their own dead body. I mean, you're gonna be dead anyway... why not allow your loved ones who are still alive to do whatever will give them the most closure/peace?

Funerals are for the living, not the dead. I am not against the idea, but the cost of the average funeral if you are going to be buried is a fucking scam. Once that box goes in the ground nobody will see it, you will rot, and the box itself will not stay pristine in any case.

My mom paid for her own cremation years ago and even though I still payed for the flowers and cards and food at her memorial, that was far cheaper. And that was her choice and she wanted it that way. Very thoughtful and pragmatic on her part. She knew that after she died the money would be better spent by me paying my bills or in a savings account. I am really thankful for her pragmatism. 

Even with weddings, like funerals seems like a waste of money on one day when it can be used for practical things like utility bills, mortgage, rent education. 

Now again, I am not saying don't do either, I am just objecting to the outrageous cost of it. Those things don't have to be expensive one bit. It is not what you spend on those things, but the family time and the connection in those personal events.

[mordant]

Apart from donation, I never did understand why anyone would care about what happened to their own dead body. I mean, you're gonna be dead anyway... why not allow your loved ones who are still alive to do whatever will give them the most closure/peace?

Funerals are for the living, not the dead. I am not against the idea, but the cost of the average funeral if you are going to be buried is a fucking scam. Once that box goes in the ground nobody will see it, you will rot, and the box itself will not stay pristine in any case.

My mom paid for her own cremation years ago and even though I still payed for the flowers and cards and food at her memorial, that was far cheaper. And that was her choice and she wanted it that way. Very thoughtful and pragmatic on her part. She knew that after she died the money would be better spent by me paying my bills or in a savings account. I am really thankful for her pragmatism. 

Even with weddings, like funerals seems like a waste of money on one day when it can be used for practical things like utility bills, mortgage, rent education. 

Now again, I am not saying don't do either, I am just objecting to the outrageous cost of it. Those things don't have to be expensive one bit. It is not what you spend on those things, but the family time and the connection in those personal events.

In accordance with his wishes I think my son's burial arrangements amounted to all of $800. His body was stripped of donatable skin and bone and tendons and internal organs, the rest incinerated. Arranged entirely online, paid with a credit card. He's literally pushing up daisies (well okay, a magnolia tree given by relatives as a memorial) in my back yard.

By son would have been delighted by all this, but it really doesn't matter if he would have or not, he certainly doesn't care NOW. Mostly, his stepmother and I are pleased ... and his sister and extended family are, at least, not offended.

My next-older brother, though not an atheist, has always felt this way about himself. "When I die, just toss me into a plastic bag and throw me in a hole in the back yard." he has always joked.

I guess it is somewhat cultural what your sensibilities are about dead bodies. There was a time when cremation was considered "disrespectful to the dead" and also of the concept of a physical resurrection (even though eventually god would have to resurrect many righteous dead without using a moldering corpse as a basis -- and should have zero difficulty in doing so).

I have to confess that even I winced when my late prior wife's body was taken away, and the gurney rammed roughly into the ambulance. I knew she was dead, but I didn't like the way they handled her, or the notion of them cutting her open for an autopsy, removing her brain ("deep fibrosis of the menenges"), etc. But it was just because I was still in transition to accepting her dissolution and the fact that the husk she resided in was no longer animated by her particular configuration of biochemical impulses.

It's hard for people to accept the fact of their mortality, and they shrink from having it shoved in their faces by situations like this, but it's better in my experience to deal with it head-on and not avoid it.

[Brian37]

Funerals are for the living, not the dead. I am not against the idea, but the cost of the average funeral if you are going to be buried is a fucking scam. Once that box goes in the ground nobody will see it, you will rot, and the box itself will not stay pristine in any case.

My mom paid for her own cremation years ago and even though I still payed for the flowers and cards and food at her memorial, that was far cheaper. And that was her choice and she wanted it that way. Very thoughtful and pragmatic on her part. She knew that after she died the money would be better spent by me paying my bills or in a savings account. I am really thankful for her pragmatism. 

Even with weddings, like funerals seems like a waste of money on one day when it can be used for practical things like utility bills, mortgage, rent education. 

Now again, I am not saying don't do either, I am just objecting to the outrageous cost of it. Those things don't have to be expensive one bit. It is not what you spend on those things, but the family time and the connection in those personal events.

In accordance with his wishes I think my son's burial arrangements amounted to all of $800. His body was stripped of donatable skin and bone and tendons and internal organs, the rest incinerated. Arranged entirely online, paid with a credit card. He's literally pushing up daisies (well okay, a magnolia tree given by relatives as a memorial) in my back yard.

By son would have been delighted by all this, but it really doesn't matter if he would have or not, he certainly doesn't care NOW. Mostly, his stepmother and I are pleased ... and his sister and extended family are, at least, not offended.

My next-older brother, though not an atheist, has always felt this way about himself. "When I die, just toss me into a plastic bag and throw me in a hole in the back yard." he has always joked.

I guess it is somewhat cultural what your sensibilities are about dead bodies. There was a time when cremation was considered "disrespectful to the dead" and also of the concept of a physical resurrection (even though eventually god would have to resurrect many righteous dead without using a moldering corpse as a basis -- and should have zero difficulty in doing so).

I have to confess that even I winced when my late prior wife's body was taken away, and the gurney rammed roughly into the ambulance. I knew she was dead, but I didn't like the way they handled her, or the notion of them cutting her open for an autopsy, removing her brain ("deep fibrosis of the menenges"), etc. But it was just because I was still in transition to accepting her dissolution and the fact that the husk she resided in was no longer animated by her particular configuration of biochemical impulses.

It's hard for people to accept the fact of their mortality, and they shrink from having it shoved in their faces by situations like this, but it's better in my experience to deal with it head-on and not avoid it.

I lost my mom as you may already know in March. $800 is cheap . As I said in a prior post my mom had pre paid several years ago, the cremation alone was 1,200. I only had to pay for flowers, priest, piano player and food. $300, so combine that with what my mom paid $1,500 between us. That is still cheap considering a burial with a expensive coffin several wreaths and several flower arrangements priest and choir. Then some rent a hotel conference room for the wake, catered buffet.

[Catholic_Lady]

Apart from donation, I never did understand why anyone would care about what happened to their own dead body. I mean, you're gonna be dead anyway... why not allow your loved ones who are still alive to do whatever will give them the most closure/peace?

Funerals are for the living, not the dead. I am not against the idea, but the cost of the average funeral if you are going to be buried is a fucking scam. Once that box goes in the ground nobody will see it, you will rot, and the box itself will not stay pristine in any case.

My mom paid for her own cremation years ago and even though I still payed for the flowers and cards and food at her memorial, that was far cheaper. And that was her choice and she wanted it that way. Very thoughtful and pragmatic on her part. She knew that after she died the money would be better spent by me paying my bills or in a savings account. I am really thankful for her pragmatism. 

Even with weddings, like funerals seems like a waste of money on one day when it can be used for practical things like utility bills, mortgage, rent education. 

Now again, I am not saying don't do either, I am just objecting to the outrageous cost of it. Those things don't have to be expensive one bit. It is not what you spend on those things, but the family time and the connection in those personal events.

Yeah, they definitely exploit people's grief over a loved one to make more money out of them. It's not cool at all.

[mordant]

$800 is cheap .

Yeah, I was lucky that someone locally had gotten a funeral director's license and chose to implement it entirely online. I never even physically met anyone, I just filled out an online form, downloaded some PDFs which I filled out and signed and scanned and emailed back to them, and that was it. The only investment they had was in picking up the body from the coroner and delivering it to the crematorium, which in turn mailed the ashes to me. It would have been more if there had been a formal memorial service to arrange or anything like that. I don't know how widespread this kind of funeral director service is, but suspect it is not unique. Honestly $800 is a bit high IMO for the probably two hours of labor that was involved on their part, but I figured I was paying for them knowing what to do, understanding the legalities, assuming liability, etc.

Naturally some people would be aghast at the spartan nature of this but my son was basically a recluse, his birth mother showed literally zero interest in him for the past 20 years, his sister frankly not much more, so there was no one else to either consult or console other than my present wife, who had adopted him (metaphorically) as her own. He was a sweet kid, a good and loyal son, kind and gentle to one and all, and if he'd given more people a chance to know him there would have been a reason for a full-blown grief-fest. As it was, there was a couple of friends from back in high school that we notified on FB, his sister, my brothers, and none of them knew him well enough and cared enough to want to travel here for a memorial service. So my wife and I did what we needed to do for ourselves. My guess is it was sort of the "atomic" funeral, not reducible to anything simpler or less pricey.

My prior / late wife was another story, there was a funeral with probably 150 people in attendance and it cost a small fortune because there were that many people that needed to deal with her passing. Even there, she was cremated (she demanded it; "my body betrayed me in life, just burn the damed thing when I'm gone" is the way she put it) and there was no casket purchased or rented, no embalming services, etc. The actual funeral was most of it. Like I say, it's all about the survivors, not the dead person.

[The Industrial Atheist]

I know I won't exist anymore but I don't like the idea of a preacher using my death as another excuse to talk about religion. Isn't there some atheist secularorganization that has sort of ministers or something? That would be better.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

$800 is cheap .

Yeah, I was lucky that someone locally had gotten a funeral director's license and chose to implement it entirely online. I never even physically met anyone, I just filled out an online form, downloaded some PDFs which I filled out and signed and scanned and emailed back to them, and that was it. The only investment they had was in picking up the body from the coroner and delivering it to the crematorium, which in turn mailed the ashes to me. It would have been more if there had been a formal memorial service to arrange or anything like that. I don't know how widespread this kind of funeral director service is, but suspect it is not unique. Honestly $800 is a bit high IMO for the probably two hours of labor that was involved on their part, but I figured I was paying for them knowing what to do, understanding the legalities, assuming liability, etc.

Naturally some people would be aghast at the spartan nature of this but my son was basically a recluse, his birth mother showed literally zero interest in him for the past 20 years, his sister frankly not much more, so there was no one else to either consult or console other than my present wife, who had adopted him (metaphorically) as her own. He was a sweet kid, a good and loyal son, kind and gentle to one and all, and if he'd given more people a chance to know him there would have been a reason for a full-blown grief-fest. As it was, there was a couple of friends from back in high school that we notified on FB, his sister, my brothers, and none of them knew him well enough and cared enough to want to travel here for a memorial service. So my wife and I did what we needed to do for ourselves. My guess is it was sort of the "atomic" funeral, not reducible to anything simpler or less pricey.

My prior / late wife was another story, there was a funeral with probably 150 people in attendance and it cost a small fortune because there were that many people that needed to deal with her passing. Even there, she was cremated (she demanded it; "my body betrayed me in life, just burn the damed thing when I'm gone" is the way she put it) and there was no casket purchased or rented, no embalming services, etc. The actual funeral was most of it. Like I say, it's all about the survivors, not the dead person.

If you don't actually see the corpse go in the oven a scammer can part a corpse out and make around $300,000 of of it.

[Astonished]

Yeah, I was lucky that someone locally had gotten a funeral director's license and chose to implement it entirely online. I never even physically met anyone, I just filled out an online form, downloaded some PDFs which I filled out and signed and scanned and emailed back to them, and that was it. The only investment they had was in picking up the body from the coroner and delivering it to the crematorium, which in turn mailed the ashes to me. It would have been more if there had been a formal memorial service to arrange or anything like that. I don't know how widespread this kind of funeral director service is, but suspect it is not unique. Honestly $800 is a bit high IMO for the probably two hours of labor that was involved on their part, but I figured I was paying for them knowing what to do, understanding the legalities, assuming liability, etc.

Naturally some people would be aghast at the spartan nature of this but my son was basically a recluse, his birth mother showed literally zero interest in him for the past 20 years, his sister frankly not much more, so there was no one else to either consult or console other than my present wife, who had adopted him (metaphorically) as her own. He was a sweet kid, a good and loyal son, kind and gentle to one and all, and if he'd given more people a chance to know him there would have been a reason for a full-blown grief-fest. As it was, there was a couple of friends from back in high school that we notified on FB, his sister, my brothers, and none of them knew him well enough and cared enough to want to travel here for a memorial service. So my wife and I did what we needed to do for ourselves. My guess is it was sort of the "atomic" funeral, not reducible to anything simpler or less pricey.

My prior / late wife was another story, there was a funeral with probably 150 people in attendance and it cost a small fortune because there were that many people that needed to deal with her passing. Even there, she was cremated (she demanded it; "my body betrayed me in life, just burn the damed thing when I'm gone" is the way she put it) and there was no casket purchased or rented, no embalming services, etc. The actual funeral was most of it. Like I say, it's all about the survivors, not the dead person.

If you don't actually see the corpse go in the oven a scammer can part a corpse out and make around $300,000 of of it.

Wow, I'm in the wrong business. What do they value about it, the black market value of the organs or are there just a lot of rich necrophiliacs out there?

[mordant]

If you don't actually see the corpse go in the oven a scammer can part a corpse out and make around $300,000 of of it.

It's fairly unusual for the family to view the body going into the oven and even then there's generally a requirement that it go in some sort of container. In my wife's case it was a wooden pallet with a cardboard box stapled on top of it, which apparently met the legal definition of a "casket" that the deceased is supposed to be cremated in. So even if I'd been there I don't know what I would have actually "seen".

It's true, in my son's case especially it's theoretically possible that what I got back was a box of cat cremains or potash or something. But that's why funeral directors are licensed and bonded; beyond a certain point I don't know how to be absolutely certain there's nothing nefarious going on. I am forced to trust the system. And really, as an atheist, all I cared about is that the body was handled to the satisfaction of what the law requires, at which point they lose interest in it.

In my son's case the coroner (claimed they) harvested his organs / tissues so the funeral director and crematorium were out of luck there.

I think the $300K potential is probably apocryphal because no reputable organ bank will take chain of possession on such things without knowing their provenance and the cause of death. For example if the cause of death is drug overdose I think they generally take a pass. Maybe there's a black market internationally or something but even that would have to meet some kind of standard to maintain product value.