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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 23, 2017 at 10:42 am
(July 23, 2017 at 10:05 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Aquinas was a delusional idiot.
*shrug* On his worst day, he was smarter than you. I don't object to the 'delusional' bit, though.
Quote:But it really does not matter what you name your god regardless. You cannot be logically consistent if you use "all" then put a limit on the word "all". "Can't" puts a limit on the word "all".
This is one of those silly objections to a point no one raised. Nothing in Catholic theology - literally nothing - says God can do anything. The out they used is 'God cannot do anything that contradicts his nature'.
Quote:The concept of the omimax God is a broken concept and does not work.
Again, a stupid objection to a point no one raised.
Boru
Obviously not considering his bullshit is still poisoning minds today and still used by apologists trying to prop up a book of mythology based on his bullshit.
Aquinas had no more modern knowledge of science than anyone worldwide so his trying to square the natural world with his own pet god claim is no different than when other famous people of antiquity try to square nature with the super natural to prop up other mythology.
Newton got physics right but that didn't make Alchemy true, and as with both Newton or Aquinas you can drone on about their impact on future generations, but that still does not prove their god or any god real.
If it worked like that then the Ancient Greek polytheistic gods are real too because they were the society that coined the word "atom". "Atom" back then as a word has no relationship at all one bit to the modern definition that science uses today.
Aquinas was a delusional moron. Our species ability to make discoveries is not rooted in comic books regardless of labels. I have seen apologists try to get nature and the super natural to agree with each other and try to point to their club. There is not one religion in the world that does not have apologist who try to get superstition and the super natural to square with science.
I am not going to repeat posting the links to all the worlds religious apology websites that argue science matches their religion. If science worked like that then Pele is a real goddess because we observe volcanos.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 23, 2017 at 4:55 pm
For the record, since you seem blissfully unaware of it, Aquinas' attempts to '...square the natural world with his own pet God...' were practically non-existant (although he did make a few halting and utterly failed statements regarding the human body), but what the fuck does that have to do with his arguments that God can't end his own existence? This is like refusing to take Einstein's statements about cosmology seriously, because he was a lousy sailor. Aquinas focused his not inconsiderable brainpower on philosophy, ethics and political theory (all from the viewpoint of Catholic theology), not natural history.
Once again, Bri, you've managed to whip yourself up into a storm of indignation over a point no one made.
Boru
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 23, 2017 at 5:42 pm
(July 23, 2017 at 4:55 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: For the record, since you seem blissfully unaware of it, Aquinas' attempts to '...square the natural world with his own pet God...' were practically non-existant (although he did make a few halting and utterly failed statements regarding the human body), but what the fuck does that have to do with his arguments that God can't end his own existence? This is like refusing to take Einstein's statements about cosmology seriously, because he was a lousy sailor. Aquinas focused his not inconsiderable brainpower on philosophy, ethics and political theory (all from the viewpoint of Catholic theology), not natural history.
Once again, Bri, you've managed to whip yourself up into a storm of indignation over a point no one made.
Boru
Boru nobody is angry at you personally, but again, i have seen this attempt by theists, not you, but by apologists year after year day after day that point to these famous people as if it points to their religion. And again, you keep ignoring that I keep saying not just in this thread, but countless times in many threads, and not just on this website, you keep missing that EVERY RELIGION has apologists who pull this crap. Debate a Muslim and they will point to their own figures in their histories. Debate a Jew, same thing, debate a Hindu, same thing, Buddhist same thing.
"Indignation" has nothing to do with it. If I had a nickle every time a Christian brought up Aquinas to prove the god of Jesus, I'd make Trump look like a vagabond. And again, Christians are not the only ones who pull crap like this. Every religion has apologists who pull this crap.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 23, 2017 at 5:48 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2017 at 5:49 pm by Amarok.)
(July 23, 2017 at 9:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: According to Thomas Aquinas (and the resultant eight centuries of pretty dreary theology) God cannot end his own existence, or even contemplate doing so. Two arguments:
1. God is perfect. For a perfect being to undergo change renders that being non-perfect. If God were to end his existence, or even contemplate doing so, he would not be God.
2. Everything that exists is either necessary (exists for its own sake) or contingent (exists because of the existence of something else). The universe is contingent upon the existence of God (that is, the universe would not exist if God did not exist). If the universe did not exist, there would be no possible framework upon which to judge existence or non-existence. God not existing is therefore a meaningless concept.
(Told you it was dreary).
Boru
God I hate Thomas Aquinas how much theological mental masturbation divorced from reality can one man do
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 23, 2017 at 5:56 pm
(This post was last modified: July 23, 2017 at 6:00 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
Quote:Boru nobody is angry at you personally, but again, i have seen this attempt by theists, not you, but by apologists year after year day after day that point to these famous people as if it points to their religion. And again, you keep ignoring that I keep saying not just in this thread, but countless times in many threads, and not just on this website, you keep missing that EVERY RELIGION has apologists who pull this crap. Debate a Muslim and they will point to their own figures in their histories. Debate a Jew, same thing, debate a Hindu, same thing, Buddhist same thing.
"Indignation" has nothing to do with it. If I had a nickle every time a Christian brought up Aquinas to prove the god of Jesus, I'd make Trump look like a vagabond. And again, Christians are not the only ones who pull crap like this. Every religion has apologists who pull this crap.
I'm not taking anything personally. My issue with you is that you keep saying Aquinas was an idiot (he wasn't), then you go off the rails about natural philosophy when the topic of the thread had to do with the nature of God.
Two bits of advice: 1. Try to address points made by other posters, not the points that are rattling round in your head. 2. Learn to live with the fact that not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot (Aquinas, when he stepped outside of theology, got almost everything wrong, but that doesn't make him an idiot).
Boru
Quote:God I hate Thomas Aquinas how much theological mental masturbation divorced from reality can one man do
I don't disagree. Aquinas had a terrific intellect, but he wasted it on proving the Church was right. Had he actually looked for answers instead of constructing arguments to prove things he already imagined to be true, he would have been on of the greats, instead of just another echo chamber for establish dogma.
Boru
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 10:24 am
(July 23, 2017 at 5:56 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Boru nobody is angry at you personally, but again, i have seen this attempt by theists, not you, but by apologists year after year day after day that point to these famous people as if it points to their religion. And again, you keep ignoring that I keep saying not just in this thread, but countless times in many threads, and not just on this website, you keep missing that EVERY RELIGION has apologists who pull this crap. Debate a Muslim and they will point to their own figures in their histories. Debate a Jew, same thing, debate a Hindu, same thing, Buddhist same thing.
"Indignation" has nothing to do with it. If I had a nickle every time a Christian brought up Aquinas to prove the god of Jesus, I'd make Trump look like a vagabond. And again, Christians are not the only ones who pull crap like this. Every religion has apologists who pull this crap.
I'm not taking anything personally. My issue with you is that you keep saying Aquinas was an idiot (he wasn't), then you go off the rails about natural philosophy when the topic of the thread had to do with the nature of God.
Two bits of advice: 1. Try to address points made by other posters, not the points that are rattling round in your head. 2. Learn to live with the fact that not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot (Aquinas, when he stepped outside of theology, got almost everything wrong, but that doesn't make him an idiot).
Boru
Quote:God I hate Thomas Aquinas how much theological mental masturbation divorced from reality can one man do
I don't disagree. Aquinas had a terrific intellect, but he wasted it on proving the Church was right. Had he actually looked for answers instead of constructing arguments to prove things he already imagined to be true, he would have been on of the greats, instead of just another echo chamber for establish dogma.
Boru
Having a huge lexicon and the ability to create elaborate tripe does proves nothing, so yea, he was an idiot PERIOD.
No, he had a vivid imagination and a big vocabulary. So does J K Rolling, but nobody today is trying to point to her and scientifically prove Harry Potter can fly around on brooms. But you do have idiot apologist today trying to use Aquinas to claim he knew about quantum mechanics so therefor Jesus is the 1 true God.
The ancient Egyptians had tons of inventive people and creative people and built some really beautiful monuments and artwork, but that did not make their polytheistic Gods real, and most people today are not pointing to their inventors trying to get science to point to their gods being real.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Quote:Having a huge lexicon and the ability to create elaborate tripe does proves nothing, so yea, he was an idiot PERIOD.
Translation: 'I don't understand what Aquinas is saying, so he's the stupid one.' Think about that, Bri. Think really hard.
Quote:No, he had a vivid imagination and a big vocabulary. So does J K Rolling, but nobody today is trying to point to her and scientifically prove Harry Potter can fly around on brooms. But you do have idiot apologist today trying to use Aquinas to claim he knew about quantum mechanics so therefor Jesus is the 1 true God.
No one uses Aquinas to prove anything scientifically, but so what if they did? That's hardly the fault of Aquinas, is it? You seem to be tripping over your own argument, here. You want to make Aquinas out to be an idiot because of your claim that people misuse what he wrote to try to prove things he never said about things he didn't care about. By your rules, Einstein would also qualify as 'a delusional idiot' because people try to use relativity to prove God exists.
Quote:The ancient Egyptians had tons of inventive people and creative people and built some really beautiful monuments and artwork, but that did not make their polytheistic Gods real, and most people today are not pointing to their inventors trying to get science to point to their gods being real.
lol, you can't have it both ways. You're dead wrong about this...people (pyramidiots, mainly) constantly point to Egyptian technology to prove that the Egyptian gods are real.
But you - again - totally miss the point I made about Aquinas and the topic of this thread. No one here is saying Aquinas was right.
Stick to threads about muppets. They're more your speed.
Boru
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 12:46 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2017 at 12:49 pm by Amarok.)
Biggest problem with Aquinas .Is that like anyone else who has tried and failed to establish god as necessary or even the greatest possible being. He thought you could just reason it into being .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:03 pm
(July 24, 2017 at 12:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Having a huge lexicon and the ability to create elaborate tripe does proves nothing, so yea, he was an idiot PERIOD.
Translation: 'I don't understand what Aquinas is saying, so he's the stupid one.' Think about that, Bri. Think really hard.
Quote:No, he had a vivid imagination and a big vocabulary. So does J K Rolling, but nobody today is trying to point to her and scientifically prove Harry Potter can fly around on brooms. But you do have idiot apologist today trying to use Aquinas to claim he knew about quantum mechanics so therefor Jesus is the 1 true God.
No one uses Aquinas to prove anything scientifically, but so what if they did? That's hardly the fault of Aquinas, is it? You seem to be tripping over your own argument, here. You want to make Aquinas out to be an idiot because of your claim that people misuse what he wrote to try to prove things he never said about things he didn't care about. By your rules, Einstein would also qualify as 'a delusional idiot' because people try to use relativity to prove God exists.
Quote:The ancient Egyptians had tons of inventive people and creative people and built some really beautiful monuments and artwork, but that did not make their polytheistic Gods real, and most people today are not pointing to their inventors trying to get science to point to their gods being real.
lol, you can't have it both ways. You're dead wrong about this...people (pyramidiots, mainly) constantly point to Egyptian technology to prove that the Egyptian gods are real.
But you - again - totally miss the point I made about Aquinas and the topic of this thread. No one here is saying Aquinas was right.
Stick to threads about muppets. They're more your speed.
Boru
Stop trying to equate his ignorance to my objection to your argument. That was then, this is now, he didn't know shit. Hawking, Greene, Krauss, they know shit. Aquinas didn't know shit.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:05 pm
(July 21, 2017 at 8:04 pm)Vast Vision Wrote: Can the god you believe in end his own existence?
Why would He want to, seems an irrelevant question to me?
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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