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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:09 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2017 at 1:10 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
Quote:Stop trying to equate his ignorance to my objection to your argument. That was then, this is now, he didn't know shit. Hawking, Greene, Krauss, they know shit. Aquinas didn't know shit.
Aquinas. Wasn't. A. Scientist. Yet you persist in faulting him for not knowing or talking about science. Do you also refuse to pay your auto mechanic because he didn't weed your garden? Dimwit.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:12 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2017 at 1:14 pm by Brian37.)
(July 24, 2017 at 12:46 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Biggest problem with Aquinas .Is that like anyone else who has tried and failed to establish god as necessary or even the greatest possible being. He thought you could just reason it into being .
Glad you brought that up. I am sure that nitwit had access to Plato, and it would not surprise me if Aquinas got poisoned by Plato's idea of "essence" too. If you have read the opening of Dawkin's "The Greatest Show On Earth" Dawkins blames Plato for that idea infecting human logic. It wasn't everything Plato wrote Dawkins objected to, just that one idea of "essence of". Plato long before Aquinas also stupidly thought you could simply "reason" your way to that perfect thing or perfect idea.
Neither Aquinas or Plato had the benefit of modern scientific method to act as a quality control to their ideas.
(July 24, 2017 at 1:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Stop trying to equate his ignorance to my objection to your argument. That was then, this is now, he didn't know shit. Hawking, Greene, Krauss, they know shit. Aquinas didn't know shit.
Aquinas. Wasn't. A. Scientist. Yet you persist in faulting him for not knowing or talking about science. Do you also refuse to pay your auto mechanic because he didn't weed your garden? Dimwit.
Boru
Of course I fault him, but I fault all of antiquity worldwide because our species back then DID NOT have modern science. Yea he said a lot of shit people liked and found popular, but he was still ignorant.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:17 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2017 at 1:27 pm by Amarok.)
Quote: Why would He want to, seems an irrelevant question to me?
This comment is the thing that's irrelevant
Oh and FYI your sub tag CG does not even come close to solving total freewill
Quote:Of course I fault him, but I fault all of antiquity worldwide because our species back then DID NOT have modern science. Yea he said a lot of shit people liked and found popular, but he was still ignorant
Actually that not true at all the idea the ancient Greeks and Romans didn't have science at least as good as the early 17th century. (maybe better) Is a modern myth the scientific revolution could have just as easily have happened in ancient Athens .The only reason it didn't was political instability.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:42 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2017 at 1:43 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
Quote:Of course I fault him, but I fault all of antiquity worldwide because our species back then DID NOT have modern science. Yea he said a lot of shit people liked and found popular, but he was still ignorant.
That may be the most monumentally stupid thing you've ever said. You fault the ancient Assyrians for not having rocket ships, or the Xia dynasty for not having fax machines?
And actually, Aquinas wasn't popular among the clergy until some two and a half centuries after his death - he was even caught up in the Condemnation of 1277 (the laity didn't even know what he'd written until a good deal later).
You might want to look things up before you go flinging the word 'ignorant' about.
Boru
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:43 pm
(July 24, 2017 at 1:05 pm)Godscreated Wrote: (July 21, 2017 at 8:04 pm)Vast Vision Wrote: Can the god you believe in end his own existence?
Why would He want to, seems an irrelevant question to me?
GC
Doesn't matter if he wants to or not, we are asking if he can do it. Once again, it's a question of omnipotence. Is god omnipotent? If yes, then he can end his own existence. If he can't end his own existence, then he is not omnipotent.
Being careful is for people who can't handle surprises.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: July 24, 2017 at 2:02 pm by Brian37.)
(July 24, 2017 at 1:42 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Of course I fault him, but I fault all of antiquity worldwide because our species back then DID NOT have modern science. Yea he said a lot of shit people liked and found popular, but he was still ignorant.
That may be the most monumentally stupid thing you've ever said. You fault the ancient Assyrians for not having rocket ships, or the Xia dynasty for not having fax machines?
And actually, Aquinas wasn't popular among the clergy until some two and a half centuries after his death - he was even caught up in the Condemnation of 1277 (the laity didn't even know what he'd written until a good deal later).
You might want to look things up before you go flinging the word 'ignorant' about.
Boru
Neither did the Ancient Egyptians what is your point?
Maybe you should watch the ENTIRE COSMOS series with Neil to understand what I am getting at. Our species ability to make discoveries is in our evolution, not our labels. EVERYONE in antiquity by comparison was IGNORANT. There is no polite way to put it.
Aquinas was ignorant. So was Plato so were the ancient Hindus and Chinese. Nobody back then had CERN or knew what the Higgs Boson particle was. Nobody knew back then what we know now. And some ideas back then still poison human thought today. Aquinas is one of those idiots.
Even Hitchens pointed this out about the entirety of worldwide antiquity. That was then, this is now. I am not treating Aquinas any differently. And why are you so stuck on defending that particular individual? There are lots of bad ideas humans concocted back then that are still believed and peddled today.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 2:14 pm
(July 23, 2017 at 9:55 am)Brian37 Wrote: (July 23, 2017 at 9:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: According to Thomas Aquinas (and the resultant eight centuries of pretty dreary theology) God cannot end his own existence, or even contemplate doing so. Two arguments:
1. God is perfect. For a perfect being to undergo change renders that being non-perfect. If God were to end his existence, or even contemplate doing so, he would not be God.
2. Everything that exists is either necessary (exists for its own sake) or contingent (exists because of the existence of something else). The universe is contingent upon the existence of God (that is, the universe would not exist if God did not exist). If the universe did not exist, there would be no possible framework upon which to judge existence or non-existence. God not existing is therefore a meaningless concept.
(Told you it was dreary).
Boru
Aquinas was a delusional idiot.
But it really does not matter what you name your god regardless. You cannot be logically consistent if you use "all" then put a limit on the word "all". "Can't" puts a limit on the word "all".
The concept of the omimax God is a broken concept and does not work.
*sniffs the air*
Wooters is near...
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 2:27 pm
He did for me.
Bless his cotton socks.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 2:27 pm
(July 24, 2017 at 1:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Quote:Stop trying to equate his ignorance to my objection to your argument. That was then, this is now, he didn't know shit. Hawking, Greene, Krauss, they know shit. Aquinas didn't know shit.
Aquinas. Wasn't. A. Scientist. Yet you persist in faulting him for not knowing or talking about science. Do you also refuse to pay your auto mechanic because he didn't weed your garden? Dimwit.
Boru
The phrase, "missing the boat" comes to mind here...
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: So can god end his own existence?
July 24, 2017 at 2:41 pm
(July 24, 2017 at 2:27 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (July 24, 2017 at 1:09 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Aquinas. Wasn't. A. Scientist. Yet you persist in faulting him for not knowing or talking about science. Do you also refuse to pay your auto mechanic because he didn't weed your garden? Dimwit.
Boru
The phrase, "missing the boat" comes to mind here...
Well if the boat doesn't float!!!
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