No Trans In The Military Says Trump

[Amarok]

You're comparing a woman feeling uncomfortable being naked in front of a man who is not her husband, to a person feeling uncomfortable being naked in front of someone who is simply of a different race. You're essentially saying I am equivalent to a racist because I don't want other men to see me naked. That's ridiculous. I don't even have a response to that.

No i brought the race part only to point out that if we pander one groups discomfort why not another. And no I never called you a racist. I said racists could use a similar argument. But one this they have in common is there both irrational.

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Meh, I don't think it's right to tell a woman who feels uncomfortable with a naked biological male showering close to her own naked body that she just needs to "get over it" as though she's being petty or whatever.  

According to you all male to female transsexuals are 'biological males'. You seem to continue having this idea in mind that all of them are basically men in drag. You are a bigot solely because you refuse to accept any new information which would mean that you have to change how you perceive other segments of the population.

And while we're on the matter, I didn't want to bump the old thread where I was criticised for saying that we're all female in the womb and then some become male·due to expression of the Y chromosome and hormonal washes, but a link to this was posted to the thinking atheist soon after so I bookmarked it for the next time you use the whole 'biological male' thing to hang your entire argument on

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I never said anything about sexual assault. Maybe it's a women thing that men don't get, but many of us wouldn't feel comfortable being naked in front of another naked male body who is not our partner or our doctor. It's a privacy/embarrassment thing, not a fear of sexual assault thing.

Strawman argument. Who is suggesting that women have to shower with another male body?

Or do you have some kind of super power allowing you to read the DNA of every person that you meet? If so, how do you feel when you find yourself in a public shower with someone with an intersex condition such as Androgen insensitivity syndrome that people without your superpower would never realise?

Mat are we taking about transsexuals or transgender? there different

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Or do you have some kind of super power allowing you to read the DNA of every person that you meet? If so, how do you feel when you find yourself in a public shower with someone with an intersex condition such as Androgen insensitivity syndrome that people without your superpower would never realise?

Or a lesbian

[Alex K]

Even Orrin effin' Hatch thinks Trump is out of line with this one. I think that settles it.

[Amarok]

As for expense as I have already said if the military can waste money on Viagra ....

[Brian37]

I have to agree on this. My doctor is a female for this reason. I don't feel comfortable with any male other than my other half seeing my hoohah. Why would I think I'd be okay with a complete stranger seeing me that way?

Yep, i used to absolutely refuse male gynos bc I didn't want them to see me naked. Unfortunately this little town only has male ones, so I had to get used to it. Still don't like it though.

That is another thing I hate about most religions, and I do mean worldwide, not just yours. Humans while we evolved to make cloths to keep warm, humans get taught body shaming. Other primates and mammals go through their entire lives naked. The last person you should worry about is a doctor. But again, that gender sensitivity isn't just women, many men want a male doctor. Me personally I could give a shit less because it is medical, not sexual.

But again, the issue is military service, not doctors not nudist camps. LGBT are far more likely to be the victims of harassment and assault inside or outside the military because of the vile stigma bigots attach to them. They are human beings and like anyone else if they serve, they simply want to do their jobs, not make anyone's life tougher.



But to be fair to you, that is lifetime of personal social conditioning so it also depends on how the individual is raised. There are plenty of women and men whom are comfortable being nude in front of anyone. Europe is not as hung up on nudity like America is.

[Amarok]

Among my people nudity is nothing . man is just another creature of the earth .Why should he feel any different about his form then a bear or an elk . Only human seem foolish enough to treat there bodies as something to be hidden .

[Brian37]

Among my people nudity is nothing . man is just another creature of the earth .Why should he feel any different about his form then a bear or an elk . Only human seem foolish enough to treat there bodies as something to be hidden .

Well again to be fair, while I think being taught to be ashamed of your body is bullshit, especially based on religion, I am not going to lie and claim when I look at anyone I'd be comfortable with nudity anywhere at all times.

Nudity has it's place sure, but not all the time everywhere. Adult consent always matters, and as long as nobody is being forced into it, and it is mutual, then nobody should care. Nude beaches, nudist clubs and even swingers clubs have their place, but no, I would not want to get on a public bus and suddenly have someone naked walk onto it un expected with no warning.

Time place and context matter, not all or never.

[The Grand Nudger]

I wouldn't ever expect the military to cover surgeries like that, but why not things like therapy? The base I was on had a great system for all sorts of mental and physical therapy that was provided to the troops. It wouldn't be an extra burden at all. And as I noted before, hormone treatment is also very inexpensive. Nothing but surgery would be a game changer here.

I would.  Full VA coverage is full VA coverage.  Projections for the full range of trans procedures have already been run, the potential cost was found to be negligible.  That includes surgery, so why would it be a game changer?  The VA already offers elective surgeries and recreational prescriptions. As a federal body, there is no legal or legitimate way for them to fail to provide services to rightful vets on the basis of animus or even the personal beliefs or opinions of any given provider. Getting access to things you couldn't otherwise afford..be it food and shelter, an education, travel, or medical expenses...is the number one driving force behind recruitment.

In any case, there's this wonderful thing in the service called a soldiers right to fail, lol. It's unrecognized and unofficial, but impossible to prevent. Here's to hoping that they mysteriously fail to root out all those icky trans, just like they used to with all the icky gays....at least until we find an adult to sit at the big desk again.

[Foxaèr]

Joint Chiefs of Staff tells military no change in trans policy one day after Trump abruptly announces ban

President Donald Trump on Wednesday announced that he opposed allowing transgender people to serve in the United States military “in any capacity.”

One day after the president’s surprise announcement, however, the Joint Chiefs of Staff are telling the military that they should not implement any changes to the current transgender policy until they receive more explicit direction from the White House.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/joint-ch...unces-ban/

[Shell B]

I wouldn't ever expect the military to cover surgeries like that, but why not things like therapy? The base I was on had a great system for all sorts of mental and physical therapy that was provided to the troops. It wouldn't be an extra burden at all. And as I noted before, hormone treatment is also very inexpensive. Nothing but surgery would be a game changer here.

I would.  Full VA coverage is full VA coverage.  Projections for the full range of trans procedures have already been run, the potential cost was found to be negligible.  That includes surgery, so why would it be a game changer?  The VA already offers elective surgeries and recreational prescriptions.  As a federal body, there is no legal or legitimate way for them to fail to provide services to rightful vets on the basis of animus or even the personal beliefs or opinions of any given provider.  Getting access to things you couldn't otherwise afford..be it food and shelter, an education, travel, or medical expenses...is the number one driving force behind recruitment.  

In any case, there's this wonderful thing in the service called a soldiers right to fail, lol.  It's unrecognized and unofficial, but impossible to prevent.  Here's to hoping that they mysteriously fail to root out all those icky trans, just like they used to with all the icky gays....at least until we find an adult to sit at the big desk again.

VA coverage is different. That comes after active duty. They shouldn't have such extensive, not immediately necessary surgery while on active duty or reserve. I'm still iffy about paying for it afterward too. Same goes for other elective surgeries. I don't care enough to fight it, though.

Just to be clear, if you meant viagra is recreational, it's not. It restores a bodily function. While some people use it recreationally, that is not its intended purpose.

[vorlon13]

I wonder if some of Trumply's displeasure with AG Jeff Session stems from some perceived gender dysphoria issues ??