The undeniable miracle at Fatima

[Harry Nevis]

That wasn't actually a law. The only thing that Stambovsky got was his down payment back and he was allowed to back out of the contract. The judge made it clear that it wasn't any sort of buyer beware or anything like that. So technically - no, there are no laws requiring anyone wishing to sell their house to disclose any sort of non-physical issues. California might come close with something on the books about having to report a murder if it has occurred within the last three years the current owner wishes to sell the house. But outside of that - I checked. I read up on the Stambovsky v Ackley lawsuit just to see if there was some violation of any laws and there were none.

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LOL you piece of shit. No one held a gun to your head and told you to post your religious crap in an atheist forum. Additionally - plenty of us have asked you to actually prove these claims with tangible scientific methodology and you FAILED time and time again to produce anything except more lies to top off your lies. And then, when you absolutely refuse to accept that we are never going to buy into your brand of woo, you concoct another story about another miracle that you expect us to just believe on your say so. When that doesn't work - you bring in the paranormal bullshit and you can't even show any proper sources for any of this. 

You got called out buddy. You told several lies and then ignored anyone who told you how factually incorrect your line of bullshit was. And you were asked to cite sources for your bullshit paranormal story. Still waiting but I won't hold my breath. 

You're out of gas on this one dude. Why don't you return back to your religious forums. I'm sure you're really popular over there and easily get anyone to believe you just because you say something really happened. 

Go ahead and put the words "stigmatized haunted property lawsuit" (not necessarily in that order) into Google and you will see the stigmatized (haunted) house law is very real. But nice try anyway guys!

Who the fuck cares?  Miracles don't exist.  The supernatural doesn't exist.  You're a lying, gullible moron.  But nice try!

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Another fact that atheists want to avoid is the subject of Jacinta from Fatima being found incorrupt. Another proof for the supernatural that leaves atheists standing there with wide eyes, especially when they realize there is physical proof they can go see themselves. Always demanding proof, but they won't put the remote control down and get off the couch and go see them, afraid of what they might find.

Details:
http://overcomeproblems.com/incorruptibles.htm

My, gawd, You just believe anything you want, don't you?  Not a speck of critical thinking.

[Astreja]

Another fact that atheists want to avoid is the subject of Jacinta from Fatima being found incorrupt...

"Incorrupt"?

Okay, Pabsta, ball is in your court.  At your personal expense and effort, kindly arrange with the RCC for an independent autopsy of this allegedly incorrupt body.  Specifically we would like the corpse tested for embalming chemicals, and to determine through cytological analysis in what respects this body materially differs from, say, a cat mummified by the Egyptians or a corpse found in a peat bog.

Let us know when the arrangements are in place, and we will send an observer (again, at your expense -- hotel, airfare, and a reasonable per diem for meals) to be at the autopsy to ensure that it's being done in accordance with professional standards.

If you fail to follow through, though, I won't be the least bit surprised.

[vorlon13]

might not hurt to check for polyurethane, Fiberglas and silicone . . . .

[Jesster]

So whose turn is it to feed this guy? Did anyone remember to take him on a walk? He's starting to froth at the mouth, so we may need to take him to the vet.

[KevinM1]

Another fact that atheists want to avoid is the subject of Jacinta from Fatima being found incorrupt. Another proof for the supernatural that leaves atheists standing there with wide eyes, especially when they realize there is physical proof they can go see themselves. Always demanding proof, but they won't put the remote control down and get off the couch and go see them, afraid of what they might find.

Details:
http://overcomeproblems.com/incorruptibles.htm

[Minimalist]

Another fact that atheists want to avoid is the subject of Jacinta from Fatima being found incorrupt. Another proof for the supernatural that leaves atheists standing there with wide eyes, especially when they realize there is physical proof they can go see themselves. Always demanding proof, but they won't put the remote control down and get off the couch and go see them, afraid of what they might find.

Details:
http://overcomeproblems.com/incorruptibles.htm

Yeah?



She looks like shit to me but I guess if you insist on believing that the sun was dancing in the fucking sky you are stupid enough to believe anything!

[pabsta]

Another fact that atheists want to avoid is the subject of Jacinta from Fatima being found incorrupt...

"Incorrupt"?

Okay, Pabsta, ball is in your court.  At your personal expense and effort, kindly arrange with the RCC for an independent autopsy of this allegedly incorrupt body.  Specifically we would like the corpse tested for embalming chemicals, and to determine through cytological analysis in what respects this body materially differs from, say, a cat mummified by the Egyptians or a corpse found in a peat bog.

Let us know when the arrangements are in place, and we will send an observer (again, at your expense -- hotel, airfare, and a reasonable per diem for meals) to be at the autopsy to ensure that it's being done in accordance with professional standards.

If you fail to follow through, though, I won't be the least bit surprised.

What you are requesting has been done for St. Bernadette's incorrupt body. The body examination testimony is located on the same page I linked to.

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An example of the logic presented in this discussion. A conversation after an exhibition baseball game:

Tom (baseball fan): Wow, you missed the exhibition baseball game yesterday! Did you hear about how that player from the Yankees charged the mound and took a swipe at the Red Sox pitcher?
Joe (his atheist friend): That player would never do such a thing
Tom: Well he did, I was there and I saw him
Joe: Where's your proof?
Tom: What are you talking about! I'm telling you I was there and I saw it, and there was a large crowd there too that saw it!
Joe: Well show me the video where it happened
Tom: It was an exhibition game, so it was not televised. Though there are still shots available of the game and the large crowd
Joe: That's not enough, so I don't believe that player ever took a swipe at the Red Sox pitcher
Tom: Dude, everyone at the game saw it, including some reporters who interviewed some of the fans about it afterward, and it was confirmed in newspapers the following day!
Joe: Did the newspaper articles contain a photo of the player swinging at the pitcher?
Tom: Well, no, but the articles still confirmed that it happened!
Joe: That's not enough, so I say it never happened unless you provide me more evidence. Every incident leaves behind evidence
Tom: Well in this instance, the player charged the mound, swung at the pitcher and missed, so there are no bruises or other evidence. But what does that matter when I'm telling you I saw it, and the large crowd there saw it, and it was in the newspapers the following day, with statements from fans confirming they saw it?
Joe: Eyewitness testimony as unreliable. Sorry Tom, the incident never happened

Readers of this discussion are going to be fit for a loony bin if they read any more of the illogical arguments being presented in here!

[Astreja]

What you are requesting has been done for St. Bernadette's incorrupt body.

No, that's not even remotely good enough.  I specifically want Jacinta's body autopsied in a state-of-the-art professional environment that cannot be manipulated in any way by the RCC, and I want *you* to pay for it out of your own pocket.

You also seem to be having a remarkable amount of difficulty differentiating between ordinary claims such as a fight breaking out at a baseball game, and extraordinary claims such as the sun bobbing around in the sky without being noticed by astronomers.

(Of course, you probably also think that Mary gave birth as a virgin and later got whooshed up into the sky, that Jesus came back from the dead but makes a nice light snack at mass, and that you have something other than insentience awaiting you after your death.  *shrug*)

[Ravenshire]

Go ahead and put the words "stigmatized haunted property lawsuit" (not necessarily in that order) into Google and you will see the stigmatized (haunted) house law is very real. But nice try anyway guys!

Case number? Your claim. Time to back it up.

[KevinM1]

What a horrible analogy. And as a Red Sox fan, I need to point out some things:

Nearly every spring training game has television coverage
They also have radio coverage (the Red Sox are a huge deal to people living in New England... it's a cultural thing stemming from having a team with 100+ years of history behind it)
While the Yankee/Red Sox rivalry isn't as intense as it once was, a fight breaking out - even in spring training - wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility depending on the events leading up to it
There are also MLB officials (neutral 3rd parties who are not fans of either team, so thus not wanting any particular narrative to be constructed over any others) present at every game

Also keep in mind, the burden of proof for a baseball fight is no where near that of a bonafide miracle... having fans, players, officials, and various media personnel say a fight happened is a completely different league (pun intended) than that of miracles

What we're saying in this thread, and have always said, is that you haven't met your burden of proof for your claims. Far from it, in fact, given that many of us have pointed out naturally occurring alternatives as well as holes in the stories presented. And, yes, miracles do have a higher burden of proof than events at a baseball game. If you cannot grasp that, well, that's your problem, not ours.

Seriously, this feels almost like a troll job stemming from the "Do extraordinary events need extraordinary evidence?" thread....