Legal Inquiry: Atheists and Affirmations (Not Oaths)

[Secular Elf]

The only experience I ever had with a court was the coroner's hearing for my Princess. I had to swear on a  bible to tell the truth etc. Didn't bother me in the slightest; it's their house, their rules. It's merely tradition. To be honest, I was far more preoccupied with the whole situation as it was than with some pettyfogging theatre.

No our country is our country, not just theirs. The oath of office sets the tone for all legal oaths, and since it is not required to swear to a god, sure you may not care, and that is fine. But i do not think it is good for everyone all the time to simply go with the flow. A citizen is a citizen regardless and I don't think our Christian majority has any right to assume, even in a court room.

But for you in that context I think it was reasonable considering what the issue was.

I feel the same way. On some matters, like this one, I am not one that goes with the flow. I understand the "pick your battles wisely" thing too. My thinking is that I should not compromise my personal principles. Conservative Christians holler all the time about not compromising their faith. Why should I compromise on my non-faith?

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Not trying to a jerk here but why do you care? God is someone else's creation, not mine. And while I don't personally believe in it and never have, I pledged allegiance every morning in school growing up and I still turned out ok.  Personally if I needed something from our legal system I'd swear to peanut butter or Donny Osmond or butt sex if it made them happy and got me what I wanted.

No problem johan, it is a fair question. Would a Christian swear an oath to Allah, Zeus or Satan if the government demanded it of them in official documentation or court settings? I think not.

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The only problem I have is this one line: "I swear the above statement is true, so help me God."
I feel ignored and betrayed.  What can I do about it?  I thought about writing an addendum asserting my rights as an American citizen with no religion.  Would that do any good?
Does anyone have any advice?

No big deal..
That word "God" doesn't say which god, so it could equally mean any god (Hindu, Muslim, Japanese, Jewish, Christian, Red Indian, Aborigine, Jungle Tribes. Pagan, Mother Earth etc), so in a sense the line simply means something like-"I swear by what I believe in" .
Even if you're an atheist it's still no big deal because it could mean "I swear by this great universe all around us"..

A fair point. But it is generally understood that it is the "Judeo-Christian" deity is being referenced. And if it can be argued that at one point "god" could be understood as the Deist god, most Conservative Christians would reject that, "Christian Nation" and all that.

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..I thought about writing an addendum asserting my rights as an American citizen with no religion.  Would that do any good?
Does anyone have any advice?

Are you involved in some kind of legal case and are facing charges?
If so it might look bad to the jury if you don't want to "swear by God" that you're telling the truth, the whole truth...

My case is a Social Security Disability Insurance claim.

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Thanks for your answers and advice everyone. Something to think about.

[Dropship]

My case is a Social Security Disability Insurance claim.

Just don't get caught on camera doing cartwheels down the street and you should win easily enough..

[Thumpalumpacus]

My case is a Social Security Disability Insurance claim.

Just don't get caught on camera doing cartwheels down the street and you should win easily enough..

It's a bit more difficult than that. They reject the majority of applications on the first go-round; most SSDI recipients have had to lawyer up and appeal a denial.

Of course, you wouldn't know that, given you're not here. But keep on opining, I'm sure someone finds it worthwhile.

[johan]

Secular Elf

Not trying to a jerk here but why do you care? God is someone else's creation, not mine. And while I don't personally believe in it and never have, I pledged allegiance every morning in school growing up and I still turned out ok.  Personally if I needed something from our legal system I'd swear to peanut butter or Donny Osmond or butt sex if it made them happy and got me what I wanted.

No problem johan, it is a fair question.  Would a Christian swear an oath to Allah, Zeus or Satan if the government demanded it of them in official documentation or court settings?  I think not.

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Depends on the Christian I guess. So I guess I should clarify a few things. I'm Atheist because I can be without fear of death or prison. Even at that, I still tend to keep in on the down low as much as possible. But if I lived in a place where being atheist could get your killed or incarcerated, I'd be as christian or a muslim or as jewish etc as you can be. Which I suppose in a way brings us back to the actual point I was trying to make. Pick the hill you're willing to die on carefully.

[Dropship]

Just don't get caught on camera doing cartwheels down the street and you should win easily enough..

It's a bit more difficult than that. They reject the majority of applications on the first go-round; most SSDI recipients have had to lawyer up and appeal a denial.

Of course, you wouldn't know that, given you're not here. But keep on opining, I'm sure someone finds it worthwhile.

Maybe the law's different here in Britain, scarce a week goes by without some phoney disability claimant being exposed, for example last week the papers carried a story of some "disabled" guy who'd been caught on camera climbing Mt Kilimanjaro on holiday..

[Secular Elf]

My case is a Social Security Disability Insurance claim.

Just don't get caught on camera doing cartwheels down the street and you should win easily enough..

No danger of that. lol

[mordant]

Just don't get caught on camera doing cartwheels down the street and you should win easily enough..

It's a bit more difficult than that. They reject the majority of applications on the first go-round; most SSDI recipients have had to lawyer up and appeal a denial.

Of course, you wouldn't know that, given you're not here. But keep on opining, I'm sure someone finds it worthwhile.

I can confirm that. It's almost a first principle of applying for disability. To my knowledge no one has ever had an initial application approved. Many government agencies operate that way; my town zoning board is another example WRT variance applications. Keeps the workload down and filters out non-serious / frivolous applicants.

Of course getting approved can vary greatly in difficulty, it's easier to get approved for something visible like a missing or withered limb than for one of the "invisible illnesses". Once approved, the number of review hoops you must jump through, and how often, also varies by ailment, often for seemingly capricious reasons.

I know all this because my prior wife dealt with SSDI for thirty years up until her death, and one of the things they seemed obsessed with checking for every couple of years was to make sure she wasn't depressed, the subtext being that if she was "just depressed" they could get her off the dole. One doctor said, OF COURSE she's depressed (reactive depression, not clinical). I'd be depressed if I were her, too. I would be worried about her sanity if she WASN'T depressed. Once that observation was on her record, they quit asking about it ;-)

[Cyberman]

It's a bit more difficult than that. They reject the majority of applications on the first go-round; most SSDI recipients have had to lawyer up and appeal a denial.

Of course, you wouldn't know that, given you're not here. But keep on opining, I'm sure someone finds it worthwhile.

Maybe the law's different here in Britain, scarce a week goes by without some phoney disability claimant being exposed, for example last week the papers carried a story of some "disabled" guy who'd been caught on camera climbing Mt Kilimanjaro on holiday..

I know what you mean. There's a family of layabouts in London, at the top of the Mall. None of them have got a proper job. The dad's Greek and the mum something like fifth generation German. All of them on state handouts. Scroungers.

[Dropship]

..There's a family of layabouts in London, at the top of the Mall. None of them have got a proper job. The dad's Greek and the mum something like fifth generation German. All of them on state handouts. Scroungers.

You mean the Royal Family of course, but they do a great "job" spreading goodwill around the world, for examp every time Prince Harry goes to America all the girls chase him like crazy with their tongues hanging out..