White supremacists and counter protesters clash in Charlottesville

[Secular Elf]

This entire situation in Virginia, which started because of a city's decision to remove Confederate monuments, is a turning point for me.  I'm a Southerner with A LOT of Confederate ancestors.  Actually, all my ancestors are Southern, no Northern branch at all.  And I've often raised my voice in defense of the Confederate side of the debate as too many people today have reduced the American Civil War into a comic book with super heroes on one side and super villains on the other.  Humans and their actions rarely match those characteristics.

However, after this, all I can do is throw my hands in the air and exclaim, "This is why we can't have nice things!"

I reject all white supremacist groups, I reject... well Trump all together, but also his pathetic response to what the white supremacists have done.  At this point, I'm of the opinion that not only should Confederate monuments start coming down, but maybe even the National Guard should start coming out to do it.  One by one.  And that hurts for me to say.  But these assholes have now given us a required reason to do so.  One that I can't, in good conscience, argue against.

I too am a fellow Southerner with a Confederate ancestor. My position on the removal of public Confederate monuments is rather apathetic. I really don't care one way or the other. The Civil War has been over for over 150 years now. We lost. We Southerners need to get over it. Remember our past yes, but try to bring it all back, no.

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Oh cmon, what do you expect...it was A Theist who, not but a few months back, couldn't contain his joy at a proposed law stating that it was okay to run over a protester..and, lo and behold, just such a thing materializes.

Ye reap what ye sow. The Right has forgotten that part of their Bible Belt tradition. Dumb fucks.

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I'll never understand why the fuck people are 'proud' of their confederate ancestors.  "My great great great grandfather died fighting in a war to preserve slavery!  And he fought on the side that wanted to preserve slavery!  So damn proud of him!"

Wonder how many Germans are going "Man!  I'm proud of my grandfather!  He fought in the war with the Nazi's.  The Nazi's weren't just about exterminating the Jews!"

Exactly. I did some family history research and discovered my great great grandfather was a Confederate soldier. I found it interesting. Is he my hero? No. Am I proud of him? No. Neither am I ashamed of him. He did what he thought was right for whatever reasons or reasons. I do not fault my ancestor for that. I could join the Sons of the Confederacy if I wanted to, but I never really thought about it much nor desire to do so. I am a white Southerner but I don't go around flying the Confederate battle flag in people's faces. That would be just obnoxious. I recognize the history. There is a place for all the Confederate objects and flags and stuff from our past: it is called a museum.

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Why Are Neo-Nazis on Twitter So Scared of Being Called Neo-Nazis?

Yesterday’s rally of neo-Nazis, Klansmen, and so-called “alt-right” activists predictably devolved into violence. One anti-fascist protester and two police officers are dead, and dozens more were injured by neo-Nazis in a fascist rally at the University of Virginia. But after the streets were cleared, far right thugs who participated in the demonstration seemed only concerned with one thing: Not being called Nazis.

It’s a curious thing that I’ve seen happen since President Trump was elected. People of the “alt-right” are very concerned about being called Nazis, even when they promote ideas that are unquestionably aligned with Nazism. There were literally Nazi flags at yesterday’s rally, and ABC News even made the obvious comparison to Nazi rallies of the 1920s and 30s on TV last night. But high-profile people from the protests have been clutching their pearls on social media whenever people have dared called them Nazis.

One of the most interesting cases of far right activists taking issue with being called Nazis is a man who goes by the name of Baked Alaska. He has been documenting his trip to Virginia on Twitter over the past few days, and has taken issue with people who have called him a Nazi again and again.

Baked Alaska, whose given name is Anthime “Tim” Gionet, regularly tweets about the persecution of white people, has tweeted out the 14 Words (a famous neo-Nazi phrase about white children), and retweets videos of his friends saying that “Hitler did nothing wrong.” He’s even known for tweeting images of people in gas chambers.

But after the smoke cleared yesterday Baked Alaska seemed very, very concerned about not being called a Nazi. His tweet from Virginia last night whined about how people were labeling those at the rally as white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and domestic terrorists. His insinuation was the he’s not any of these things.

This, of course, was after one of the neo-Nazis, identified as 20-year-old James Alex Fields Jr., drove his car through a crowd of counter-protestors, killing one woman and injuring at least 30 others. The attack has been denounced by politicians (excluding President Trump, for some reason) as an act of domestic terror. But why would white supremacists online worry about the names people give them?

Baked Alaska was hit with pepper spray yesterday during the clashes between Nazis and counter-protesters (sometimes called Antifa, or anti-fascist). But even after he got sprayed with bear mace, his largest concern seemed to be the labels people were using for him. Which is curious, given all of the things he’s tweeted.

On Friday, Baked Alaska tweeted a video of the “14 Words,” coined by the late white supremacist David Lane. The 14 words read, “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” It’s not exactly subtle and is unquestionably a neo-Nazi slogan.

And yet, earlier in the week Baked Alaska took issue with the website Barstool Sports, who called him a neo-Nazi in an article originally titled, “Neo-Nazi Leader Baked Alaska is Sad No One Will Rent Him an Airbnb.” The title has since been changed to, “Alt-Right Troll Named ‘Baked Alaska’ is Sad No One Will Rent Him an Airbnb.” Baked Alaska called the original headline slanderous on Twitter and asked if someone would be fired over the piece.

But why is Baked Alaska so concerned with being called a Nazi? Some insist, as evidenced by the Barstool Sports revision, that he’s merely a troll, or someone who simply says incendiary things to get a reaction out of people. He doesn’t really believe in the causes of Nazism, they say, and is merely being outrageous.

But how long does someone get to joke about endorsing Nazism before they’re officially a Nazi? Is there a magic number of times people get to “jokingly” say they’re a Nazi before we take them at their word?

Is three gas chamber jokes enough? Does tweeting out the 14 words without a hint of irony count? How about if you attend a rally with Klansmen and neo-Nazis who are chanting “Jews will not replace us”? Does society finally get to call you a neo-Nazi if you’re marching with other people holding Nazi flags?

As far as the “trolling defense” goes, people used to say the same thing about an infamous neo-Nazi hacker who goes by the name of Weev. The tech community rallied around Weev, whose real name is Andrew Auernheimer, back in 2013 when he was sentenced to 41 months in prison for exploiting an AT&T iPad security flaw. His comments about Jews and black people were dismissed as “trolling” in the early days of his notoriety.

But it slowly became clear to anyone was paying attention that Weev’s trolling wasn’t just a silly game of being politically incorrect. Weev was a full blow neo-Nazi. He got a tattoo of a swastika sometime around late 2014 and published anti-semitic and anti-black screeds constantly.

Weev writes for the Daily Stormer, arguably the most important and high-profile white supremacist website on Earth, and in early July, Weev had a message for CNN: “Kill yourselves, kike news fakers.” Amazingly, some people in tech still to this day refer to him as a troll rather than a neo-Nazi.

Again, one has to start questioning how we describe people on the internet who aren’t shy about saying things that obviously align with Nazism and yet blanch at being called Nazis.

Richard Spencer, one of the most newly famous neo-Nazis, is another great example of someone who has shied away from the neo-Nazi label while obviously holding beliefs that match perfect with those of old school Nazis. Spencer coined the term “alt-right,” and though words can change and evolve over time, he was pretty clear about his intentions with the word. The term “alt-right” was a way to make the white supremacist movement more palatable, especially online. And it gave racists and fascists cover. They could echo the exact thoughts of neo-Nazis while feigned offense that anyone dare call them one. They’re alt-right, they insist. Not neo-Nazi.

I reached out to Baked Alaska for comment through Twitter and have yet to hear back. I’ll update this post if he responds. I suspect that he and anyone else you might ask from yesterday’s rally will respond that they’re no more neo-Nazi than the president of the United States, who made it clear that he was denouncing “many sides” for the violence, not just the people holding Nazi flags. And that should fucking terrify every American.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, it is a fucking duck.

[Catholic_Lady]

[Mr.wizard]

[Anomalocaris]

Jefferson didn't kill people, or cause people to be killed, to protect slavery?

[Jackie]

[Thumpalumpacus]

Two days too late, and he obviously didn't want to.

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President Lincoln was speaking of egalitarianism with blacks in that statement, not slavery.  Indeed, the very next sentences are:


Lincoln's position was that while blacks and white weren't equal as people, that slavery was still abhorrent.

Oh I know. I wasn't saying he supported slavery, I know he didn't. I was just saying he was nonetheless very racist, yet we still have his statues up while we take down Lee's.

Yes. Did Lincoln commit treason? Because Lee did.

Yours is a false equivalence.

[Secular Elf]

BLM has no organized leadership, no centralized headquarters, and no established manifesto. So how do you know what BLM is or isn't? What we know of BLM are videos of their protests chanting "Pigs in a blanket! Fry'em like bacon!" and "What do we want? Dead Cops!" As far as I can see, what has been witnessed by news videos, is that BLM is a hate movement that advocates violence against police officers....and the movement should be condemned for that.

I would consider myself a strong supporter of the BLM movement. It is a large group of people who are angry and who are sick and fucking tired of being targeted. It is not a hate movement. If you see it that way, you are not understanding why they exist in the first place. Anyone who advocates violence against the police or anyone else is wrong.

Listen to their message.

Generally I agree with this. My specific point of disagreement is with "Anyone who advocates violence...is wrong." I look at it this way: if a group of people have decided to name you and your people as an enemy and that is their rhetoric on a daily basis, then that group has become a threat to me and my people. I must of necessity prepare myself and advocate and promote to my people to defend ourselves and make preparations for defense. The Conservatives, Dominionists, and Alt-Righters have declared us Liberals, Progressives, and Secularists as their enemy because they can't evolve with the rest of us, will not evolve with the rest of us. Ok, they are my enemy and the enemy of my people, so be it. They have declared war against us so then we must now bring the war home to them. They started this shit. It is up to us to finish it.

[Minimalist]

[The Grand Nudger]

Have we really become so gentrified that civility is a shield for racism?  Racism isn't civil, and it doesn't deserve civility.  There should be a national holiday for punching nazis - we should get the day off of work and everything to do it.

[Jackie]