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So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
#51
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 2:14 pm)Cyberman Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 12:38 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: To my mind and in contrast to both the OP and alpha_male, I think figurative language such as "foundations of the deep" and "window of heaven" point to a more metaphorical interpretation of the story. I never regarded the Bible as a science book.

Metaphors still have to refer to some object or action. Was the Flood a real event or not?

My personal opinion is that the biblical narrative was a local cataclysmic water event in Southeast Asia at the end of the Ice Age, retained in ancestral memory and expressed in flood myths across cultures.
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#52
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 11:24 am)vorlon13 Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 10:53 am)Cyberman Wrote: Why would a being with supernatural control of the Universe do such ridiculously convoluted things in such a ridiculously convoluted way?

and also He forgets to inundate Egypt . . . 

[Image: 86f7bfe56acc910f25b87ac2872f76ca301229c2...fcecb0.jpg]

Egypt is far away and the biblical world is a very small one.  The authors of genesis do not sound cosmopolitan even by the standards of 1500 BC.   In truth the world of that yokelish and self important bunch likely only extend as far as the farthest cousin or sister they fucked.  Everything beyond that is rather hazy, stuff of hearsay, and part of the ill defined firmament.   Such are the sources modern day literalist morons, in the age of Hubble telescope and higg's boson, look to for guide to the formation of the cosmos.
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#53
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 10:49 am)alpha male Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 7:51 am)Harry Nevis Wrote: Because it exposes these so-called supernatural events as bullshit?

No, it doesn't. Once you accept a supernatural flood for the sake of discussion, there's no argument to be made against it. Even if the mountains were as high then, someone with supernatural control of the universe could create enough water to flood it, then destroy the water later. Duh.

Just like Superman. Thanks for the conformation. Finally.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#54
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 2:14 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Metaphors still have to refer to some object or action. Was the Flood a real event or not?

My personal opinion is that the biblical narrative was a local cataclysmic water event in Southeast Asia at the end of the Ice Age, retained in ancestral memory and expressed in flood myths across cultures.

Southeast Asia?
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#55
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 4:45 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: My personal opinion is that the biblical narrative was a local cataclysmic water event in Southeast Asia at the end of the Ice Age, retained in ancestral memory and expressed in flood myths across cultures.

Southeast Asia?

Yes, the biblical land of Cambodia. They do flood there quite often, I was told.

Seriously, the sea level rose 100 meters at the end of the last ice age, and there is evidence part of the rise was abrupt and inundated much of the Asian continental shelf around Indonesia quickly.    The area rapidly submerged parts might have been about the size of Europe.  The problem is abrupt is relative and flooding the sundaland likely took many centuries.

But a more plausible theory for factual origin of the genesis flood myth suggest it was the filling the Black Sea basin near the Fertile Crescent, not the flooding of distant continental shelves, that spawned the cultural memory of great and widespread flood. The basis is the Black Sea became cut off from the Mediterranean Sea when the world's ocean dropped during the ice age. With Mediterranean no longer supplying water the level of Black Sea fell much lower than the global sea level due to evaporation. This freed up large tracks of former sea floor to neolithic settlement. Near the end of last ice age the Mediterranean rose with global sea level and eventually it overtopped the isthmus that separated Mediterranean and Black Sea, this resulted in rapid erosion of the former barrier and very rapid increase in the infill rate at the much lower Black Sea. Within a few month the Black Sea would have been filled to the current level. The Black Sea flood story has the benefit of occurring both closer to then middle east, and can plausibly occur far more rapidly than even the most abrupt sea level change.  It is plausible for the filling of Black Sea basin to occur on the timescale of months.
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#56
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 4:45 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: My personal opinion is that the biblical narrative was a local cataclysmic water event in Southeast Asia at the end of the Ice Age, retained in ancestral memory and expressed in flood myths across cultures.

Southeast Asia?

Yes. The dramatic rise in sea levels at the end of the Ice Age coupled with a low continental shelf would have produced massive tidal waves and sudden flooding throughout the region.

Field Museum
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#57
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 4:49 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 4:45 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Southeast Asia?

Yes, the biblical land of Cambodia. They do flood there quite often, I was told.

Seriously, the sea level rose 100 meters at the end of the last ice age, and there is evidence part of the rise was abrupt and inundated much of the Asian continental shelf around Indonesia quickly.    The area rapidly submerged parts might have been about the size of Europe.  The problem is abrupt is relative and flooding the sundaland likely took many centuries.

But a more plausible theory for factual origin of the genesis flood myth suggest it was the filling the Black Sea basin near the Fertile Crescent, not the flooding of distant continental shelves, that spawned the cultural memory of great and widespread flood.  The basis is the Black Sea became cut off from the Mediterranean Sea when the world's ocean dropped during the ice age.   With Mediterranean no longer supplying water the level of Black Sea fell much lower than the global sea level due to evaporation.  This freed up large tracks of former sea floor to neolithic settlement.   Near the end of last ice age the Mediterranean rose with global sea level and eventually it overtopped the isthmus that separated Mediterranean and Black Sea, this resulted in rapid erosion of the former barrier and very rapid increase in the infill rate at the much lower Black Sea.    Within a few month the Black Sea would have been filled to the current level.    The Black Sea flood story has the benefit of occurring both closer to then middle east, and can plausibly occur far more rapidly than even the most abrupt sea level change.  It is plausible for the filling of Black Sea basin to occur on the timescale of months.

Yeah, I was thinking that the myth was likely based on events involving the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. Neo may be onto something, but an east-Asian event spawning SW-Asian flood stories with characters whom later south-western Asians identify as ancestors seems a stretch.
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#58
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 12:02 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: What's a "fountain of the deep" ??

Sounds like a sexual metaphor at first blush . . . .

"La Fuente del Ritmo"* Caravanserai.

* 'The rhythm of the fountain'.

I've no fucking idea>

a) What it means.
b) Why I posted this.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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#59
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
I'm guessing if Noah's Ark is based on a real flood it was something like this:

Generation 1:
Noah: Back in my day, we had a lot of rain for a long time.  So I took all my animals and put them inside to keep them safe.

Generation 2:
Ham: When dad was really old, there was a great big rain!  He took all the animals and put them inside to keep it safe.

Generation 3:
Noah's Grandson: When grandpa was like 600 years old, there was a great big rain.  So he took all the animals and put them inside to keep them safe.
Noah's Great Grandson: All of the animals?  SOmehow I don't believe you dad!  No way he could fit them all in his barn!
Noah's Grandson: Well I reckon he kept just two of each.

Generation 4:
Noah's Great Grandson: When my great grandpa was like 600 years old, there was a big rain.  So he took two of each animal and kept them safe.
Noah's Great Great Grandson: HEY!  if it rained so much, how did he stop the animals from drowning?
Noahs' Great Grandson: Well I guess he had them on some kind of boat.

Generation 5:
Noah's Great Great Grandson: When my great great grandfather Noah was 600 years old GOD FLOODED THE WORLD!  He was angry.  Wanted to kill everyone.  Rained 30 days and 30 nights.  Killed all the animals too.  But he got my great great grandfather to gather up two of each kind.  There were literally hundreds of animals on the ark.  
Noah's Great Great Great Grandson: Maybe we should write this story down!

Generation 10:
Noah's Descendant: *insert Noah's Ark story*
Noah's Descendant's son: Uhh... so why are there so many people if God killed everyone?  What about the Pyramids in Egypt?  There's too many animals to fit two of each kind, and even if he did, how did the animals have anything to eat?
Noah's Descendant: You know there's this new book Abraham showed me that says we should stone disobedient children.
Noah's Descendant's Son: Okay, I believe you!
Noah's Descendant: TOO LATE!  *throws stones*
The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to woman is, to the last degree, contemptuous and degrading. - Elizabeth Cady Stanton
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#60
RE: So, what would an actual 'biblical' flood look like ??
(August 29, 2017 at 4:45 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 2:48 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: My personal opinion is that the biblical narrative was a local cataclysmic water event in Southeast Asia at the end of the Ice Age, retained in ancestral memory and expressed in flood myths across cultures.

Southeast Asia?

The biblical flood story is simply a war story.  It uses metaphors to describe war and peace.  It's mostly likely associated with the Egyptian invasion of the Levant and their subsequent defeat.
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