Niqab and Muslim Women

[Brian37]

Personally; I don't mind covering the face in terms of personal freedom. But I'm totally against (and frankly abhor) twisting what the Quran says to prove an ancient custom.

I think it's cute that you imagine the quran has any other use.

To be fair to Atlass sexism was rampant in all of antiquity worldwide. Humans back then saw females as property to be bartered between families. And sexist clothing exists in every religion, even if not everyone in that label ascribes to it, many still do. 

Back in antiquity worldwide, nobody had any clue that females contributed half the genes. Girls/women were viewed as fields for the man to plant the seed in. It is why even to this day worldwide a majority of the time the female adapts the man's last name. It is still a form of subjugation born out of human ignorance. 

The Amish expect those girls/women to dress a certain way. LDS and Mormons too. Hindus and Sikhs also have gender role clothing too. You will also never see a female Dali Lama or female Pope. 

But even in polytheism in Ancient Rome and Greece, the head gods are depicted as male, and quite often, even in their mythology, the female goddesses are seen as second class, and human females like Casandra are used as pawns to make the male Gods look good. Ajax is a polytheistic character whom is depicted as a hero, but in his exploits he also rapes women. 

Point being again, Islam did not invent sexism nor does it own a patent on it. I would only say to Atlass, the same thing I say to any religion. Religion is still used, like it or not, to justify sexism, but not just his.

[CatholicDefender]

They seem to care about their modesty, a shining example to us all

[WinterHold]

Little lunch

I've travelled through Indonesia and Malaysia, a lot.
I always found it disgusting to see a woman wearing the black niqab in 40 degree heat, trailing ten paces behind her pig of a husband who is wearing shorts, shirt and sandals.
They have to hold it open and slurp food from underneath whilst eating.
Head scarfs I have no problem with unless it's enforced by the husband or family.
I'd like to see niqabs banned but the main problem is that many women would never be able to leave the house again.
Sorry AtlasS33, but it's just another reason why the Muslim religion is worse than almost all other religions.

Seeing the wife wearing that gives the husband a sense of control, thinking about it it's the same feeling of FGM; that the wife is a "harem" owned by the husband.
Yes, disgusting isn't even enough to describe when you see that Muslim men have no limitation on what to wear.

It's not Islam, little lunch. But it's Sunni/Shiite way.

Brian37

Religiously justified gender clothing is not an invention of Islam. Christianity even today has its bullshit sexist clothing certain families and sects in Africa, South America and even in far right America force on their girls/women too. I would only say that the Burka worldwide out of all sexist clothing has to be the most oppressive to females.

Men of all the world's religions simply need to grow the fuck up and understand the bullshit sexism of antiquity does not apply in the modern world.

As an aside Atlas, do you really think you will magically get smote'd, smite'd or an underwear wedgie if you don't end your god talk with "peace be upon him"?

I promise nothing bad will happen to you if you don't say that. It is just a superstition, just like nothing bad will happen to a Star Wars fan if they don't say, "May the force be with you."


This message brought to you by ABBA, "peace be upon Agnetha". Agnetha is the blond on the right in my avatar. She was a goddess back in the 1970s. Hubba hubba.

Virtue was advocated by the Abrahamic religions for both men and women. Across history, the covering for women appeared:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcophagu...a_Tlesnasa

The reason given for this  in the Quran:

Sura 33, The Quran:
( 58 )   And those who harm believing men and believing women for [something] other than what they have earned have certainly born upon themselves a slander and manifest sin.

( 59 )   O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be harmed. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

Not be harmed is the reason.
And "telling" is the only way to advice a woman to wear this; here you can see why I hate Sunni/Shiite Islam: "tell" which shows clearly in the verse got avoided, and many Muslims abused women and locked them in cages.

"Tell" became "enforce".

Not to mention that a woman can walk out of this deal anytime she wants:

Sura 2, The Quran:
( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

For PBUH, honoring Mohammed's name is demanded in the Quran. That's why I say it.
Respect is different than admiration!

I had a dream the other night where I was shagging the blond out of ABBA. Don't know his name.

Moral: the e is important for avoiding misunderstandings.

Brian37 Wrote:

The blond guy is Bjorn, the blond lady is Agnetha. But I am sure this was sarcasm on your part smarty pants. So here is a picture for some clarification. This is not Bjorn. 

The 70s was a weird era ! males and females had the same hair styles and material. So he might've got confused

Catholic_Lady

It makes me cringe to see a woman covering herself from head to toe like that, as though she were nothing but a walking sexual temptation. There is no greater objectification than that. Its sickening.

Women are more attractive than men. Checking women out and lusting on their beauty became a norm across cultures for men, and the goal of the look is mostly sexual (not always; but mostly).

But giving women a choice to either veil the sexy parts, or expose them is something I find good. There are shy girls who aren't even Muslim, but prefer to cover up many parts. But what makes me cringe too is the enforcing of this. Especially in the way Little_Lunch have said. It's so disgusting to see the husband in the front, and the wife in a Niqab left behind to walk like a sexual property.

I believe the veiling should be similar to what nuns wear
--------------------------------
(...to be continued...)

[Cyberman]

I mean... I don't recall any catholic nuns advocating for a policy requiring all women in their country to wear a habit, punishable by imprisonment or worse..

Don't bother. Some people are always going to try to equate Christianity with radical Islamism every chance they get.

Why the "radical" qualifier and the "-ism" suffix only for Islam? That's rather a one-sided equation, essentially imposing on me a position I haven't advanced. What were you saying about ignorant and dishonest, again?

[The Grand Nudger]

If the purpose is to reduce attraction and perversion, then it fails on grounds of rule 34.  Niqab pron exists..hilariously, it's the only thing the girls -are- wearing.  Good job Islam!

It's not exactly surprising, these body coverings for "modesty" make it easier to objectify a person due to the lack of idiosyncratic and humanizing features common to human faces and bodies. The blindfold is for the executioner, not the condemned. They also make it easier to fanatasize about a person without all the nagging detail of..well...detail. Taken together, and along with the observation that taboo breeds perversions - nothing about the whole sorry state of bodybags and their variants in islam is remarkable in the least.

[Catholic_Lady]

Don't bother. Some people are always going to try to equate Christianity with radical Islamism every chance they get.

Why the "radical" qualifier and the "-ism" suffix only for Islam? That's rather a one-sided equation, essentially imposing on me a position I haven't advanced. What were you saying about ignorant and dishonest, again?

You're literally equating habit uniforms worn by regular nuns for their vocation, with the niqabs as required attire for women in the Middle East if they are going to be seen by any man other than family. That's radical Islam, and you're equating that with mainstream Christianity by posting a picture of nuns, in church, wearing their nun uniform. It's dishonest to try to say the 2 are the same on any level, and you know it. You're a smart man.

[Cyberman]

I was trying to illustrate the lack of subsatntial difference between one woman wearing such an outfit for religious reasons and another from a different religion. I'm not equating the two religions beyond that superficial level. I leave the justifications for the costumes and practices to others, but someone else would have done the same if I hadn't.

[Catholic_Lady]

I was trying to illustrate the lack of subsatntial difference between one woman wearing such an outfit for religious reasons and another from a different religion. I'm not equating the two religions beyond that superficial level. I leave the justifications for the costumes and practices to others, but someone else would have done the same if I hadn't.

Fair enough, but I still think equating a nun wearing a habit, which is a vocational uniform, to women being made to wear a niqab every time they have to leave the house or be seen by a man, seems very dishonest to me.

[The Grand Nudger]

What's radical about a niqab?  The idea that you should cover some part of your body is no more or less radical in the case of a niqab than it is in the case of a shirt.  Go to church topless, see what happens.

[Cyberman]

@CL
Then you are correct in entering the objection into the record. As am I in disagreeing.