A good argument for God's existence (long but worth it)

[Whateverist]

 
It is insane to think we would know what ultimate greatness would be and how it would act, while there is no connection to it.
 

On this much we can agree.  I'm certainly not insane enough to think I can tell you how god must act let alone what he might want.  Is that your main point?

[WinterHold]

You guys have been hit with so many good arguments, rather sad, you guys insisted on accepting arguments and evidence to believe in God and only on that condition, but when shown it, you turn aside from them and don't properly digest them.

You know, the worst habit of all, is "the purifying of the self", thinking that you are so much better than everybody else, and holding the "true" and "correct" view.
Who lied to you and told you that? 

And didn't you say that you're not going to the these "forums" again?

https://atheistforums.org/thread-48740.html



Or was it a part of your "seeds of fury"?

https://atheistforums.org/thread-48253-p...pid1528379

[Brian37]

Sorry MK, you've used up all your "long but worth it" credits. Show me a good argument in three terse paragraphs and I'll read it. If you need half a book, it's a sure sign it's bullshit.

The witness argument was the best argument by far.   It's very simple that we require an objective judging perception to define us and our perception is not that, nor do we make ourselves inherit our actions.

That's it. The perpetual identity was good. The signs of value in ourselves was long but good too. This is good too.

The moral argument is sound. The paradox of any possible Creator being unable to create goodness from nothing hence proving it's eternal is good too.

You guys have been hit with so many good arguments, rather sad, you guys insisted on accepting arguments and evidence to believe in God and only on that condition, but when shown it, you turn aside from them and don't properly digest them.

Mystic, we PROMISE, well maybe not Trump, but we here PROMISE we wont advocate sticking you in Guantanamo Bay Cuba. WE PROMISE. 

When you say, "witness accounts are the best arguments"

Jews say the same thing. Christians say the same thing. Hindus say the same thing and so do Buddhists. The problem is humans perceptions of reality are notoriously flawed. Most humans get sold the religion of their parents at birth long before they can develop critical thinking skills. There are very slick apologists as adults whom sell every religion you can think of, but the problem remains, no matter how elaborate the argument, it is still an attempt to prop up the ignorance of antiquity. 

Same with "properly digest"........

A Christian would argue you haven't "properly digested" the bible that is why you cant understand why you should believe Jesus. We are being fair to you and to Christians and to Jews and to Hindus and to Buddhists. If anyone of any label had evidence that that one label were the only correct answer, they'd win a Nobel Prize and own a patent. 

We are not being mean to you by saying "So what?". There are 7 billion humans with 10s of thousand of religions and countless god claims. 

"You are not reading it correctly" is even argued between Sunnis and Shiites. "You are not reading it correctly" is argued by both Trump voting Evangelicals and Obama voting Baptists over the bible.

A Japanese Shinto Buddhist is not going to view Buddha the same way a Tibet Buddhist will and a Chinese Buddhist either. 

All you are arguing is the same thing most humans argue, "Why don't you believe me" and "If you would just do it my way".

Our species morality does not come from a religion, a old book of mythology or a holy person. Our species morality is in us, the individual. I don't need your Koran anymore than you feel the need for a bible or the Hindu Vedas.

[Amarok]

It is insane to think we would know what ultimate greatness would be and how it would act, while there is no connection to it.

 Nope I can easily envision . The contrary is simply an excuse to get you personal deity off the hook . And for you to escape having to defend it because you can't. it's as silly as saying

reasoning would get every criminal off of every crime. Everyone could say, in every court of law, “Well, just because you can’t think of a reason I was totally justified in doing that, does not allow you to conclude I’m guilty.” And when the jury asked, why they won’t then tell them what their defense is, everyone could say “Hey, it’s way too complicated for you to understand, so I can’t tell you what it is.” This no more works for God than it would work for any criminal whatever. If someone can’t explain any good reason why they committed or permitted a crime, the only rational conclusion is that they are probably guilty of the crime. As for criminals, so for God. Worse for God, really. After all, what are the odds a being that knows everything, doesn’t know how to explain anything

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Number 1 rule of doubting, know when to stop doubting.

No such rule exists

[Brian37]

You guys have been hit with so many good arguments, rather sad, you guys insisted on accepting arguments and evidence to believe in God and only on that condition, but when shown it, you turn aside from them and don't properly digest them.

You know, the worst habit of all, is "the purifying of the self", thinking that you are so much better than everybody else, and holding the "true" and "correct" view.
Who lied to you and told you that? 

And didn't you say that you're not going to the these "forums" again?

https://atheistforums.org/thread-48740.html



Or was it a part of your "seeds of fury"?

https://atheistforums.org/thread-48253-p...pid1528379

Atlass, as our only other active Muslim, yea we all knew he said that, but I don't want him to leave. I think it is good for the west to see disagreements between Muslims just like I think it is good for Christians to see disagreements between atheists. I think he needed to leave because something in his life was stressing him out, and he didn't need more stress here. He may have meant it at the time sure. But I would prefer him to come back and try to argue here, than to get sucked into something horrible, like ISIS. 

Yes even you question him as well as we do, but his coming back after saying he wouldn't should be the least of our worries. I think he merely is still trying to find his place in the world. I have problems with your arguments as well, but as everyone knows, Catholic Lady and A-Theist also catch crap from me. 

You are both safe here even though we can be blunt with our words. MK annoys me mostly because he sounds like I did pining after a cheer leader in Highschool. But I don't want him gone, or arrested or dead anymore than I want that for you. But logic wise yes, I do pull my hair out. Point being does not matter that he said he wouldn't come back but did. What matters is that we know by him doing this, he didn't go completely off the deep end.

[brewer]

Hey MK, hope you're doing well.

If you need a god to make sense of your life, your reality, your existence, that's fine by me. 

What I don't understand is why you need us to believe in the existence of your god to help you make sense of your life and your reality. 

This only comes across as insecurity to me. Ever heard the saying "methinks he doth protest too much"? 

You can't argue god into existence. Time to stop preaching and justifying.

[Athene]

Oh. Hi, MK.

Op was too long. Think I saw something in there about the Problem of Evil....blah, blah, blah. He Who Should Be Valued Above All Others...blah.
Meh...whatever.

Look, man. I just don't believe in magic.
Gods have magical attributes. Which makes them magic by default.

So....yeah. I just don't see why NOT believing in magic that makes ME unreasonable.

[Astonished]

Hey MK, hope you're doing well.

If you need a god to make sense of your life, your reality, your existence, that's fine by me. 

What I don't understand is why you need us to believe in the existence of your god to help you make sense of your life and your reality. 

This only comes across as insecurity to me. Ever heard the saying "methinks he doth protest too much"? 

You can't argue god into existence. Time to stop preaching and justifying.

I personally find it pathetic and contemptible to have such a crutch and will justifiably keep people like that at arm's length, but yeah, if you can look past the mentality of someone like Baby Groot trying to figure out which button not to push, then hey, you do you.

And the insecurity is that of Yahweh/Allah. That's why they demand worship and exclusivity and blood sacrifice. One would think omnipotence would be enough not to feel insecure but they've got to have their dicks out and let 'em dangle for the hungry lips and tongues of their adherents. How about a different approach like trying to make that sound appealing instead of just lying about it?

[pocaracas]

MK, I feel cheated.
The title said "A good argument for God's existence (long but worth it)".
That was neither good, nor worth it.
Good thing others have addressed your wall of text....that way I need only tell you that a concept does not reality make.
In mathematics, we can conceptualize a space of infinite dimensionality. In physics, we collapse all those to what we observe, 3 spatial dimensions and one rebuttal dimension forming a special four dimensional space.
There are branches of physics hypothesising higher dimensionality to our reality, but which collapses to the known 4 on an immeasurable scale... String theory, they call it. Until that thing pans out, it's as good as magic.

These concepts that go beyond our experience and that of our finest instruments are fine notions, but, as far as we can tell, they're beyond because they're made up.
Never underestimate the power of human imagination.

[Mystic]

The witness argument was the best argument by far.  

Ok then let's concentrate on that one if you say so.

It's very simple that we require an objective judging perception to define us and our perception is not that, nor do we make ourselves inherit our actions.

I don't understand a single word. This summary is just gibberish to me. Maybe too compressed?

If we aren't perceived as we are, we don't have an exact value. We do have an exact value. Therefore we are perceived exactly as we are. The only Vision that can see our exact value is perfect judgment. 

Yes, this absolutely proves God.

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Mister Agenda, look forward to your reply. At least you tried to digest it and refute (though I believe you contradicted yourself in trying to do so and aren't realizing how obvious one of the premises you are denying is).