A good argument for God's existence (long but worth it)

[Brian37]

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No, rather it's simple. You don't get to define what it means to be all-good while denying that there is any connection to the all-good because there is no all good, you make an imaginary sky which is the highest ultimate good, and you then define how it would be, create the world, and what it will, and say you see we proven such a being cannot exist, by a connection we don't have with him but just have made up.

If Highest Goodness exists, it is not going to be known simply by our whims nor blind shots in the dark, but must be recognized through a connection to it.

The above line includes the following statement: "If it not recognized through a connection to it, Highest Goodness would not be known".

If you have no idea what it is because you are arguing there is no connection, how can you put terms on it?

Or is that they are making use of his connection to the highest goodness while disbelieving in it and disproving it?

Come on dude. That is only a small part, it's not the main dish. The main dish is the proof I offered to how we can know God exists (among many other ways).

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There is no need, because Quran does the best job, at proving and reminding of his existence.  However, the Quran needs receptive ears, reflection and true armies of intelligence to go with it.

If God exists, we certainly don't need people like me to prove it's existence.

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I am just trying to help you guys that despite him emanating guidance from himself, reciting clear arguments for his existence and his religion, and despite appointing interpreters and leaders who guide by his command,  don't see the truth.

Indeed it maybe no matter how much I try, as long as you intend to be averse to God, then God will not allow the truth to enter your heart or receive no matter how clear the argument is, because you don't want to perceive.

Moses, Noah, other Prophets, they were all accused of being unclear, speaking nonsense, that no one understood what they say, but the Quran shows that was not true, people became rather blinded by their sheer opposition to the truth and believed in their own slogans despite them not making sense, and constantly demanded for clearer proofs, instead of looking at the clear proofs presented be they physical miracles they call sorcery or the divine books which stand towering above that of the speech of humans.

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There is no book on this earth that comes even remotely close to proving the existence of god.  Isn't it funny that all "revelation of god" - no matter which god - has emerged from the imagination of a human being?  That's all "holy" books are.  Fantasies.  But you're right - if a god exists, he doesn't need people like you - or any human being, or any book, to prove it exists.  It's amazing that you would waste so much time typing up such wall-of-text convoluted argument nonsense when you admit yourself that your god doesn't need you to make the effort.

To be fair to him, like you said, "no matter which god". Jews and Christians also claim the same god of Abraham and claim that he is "all powerful" so yea, our argument wouldn't be just to him, but all three religions.

I just don't see the logic in claiming "all powerful" only for that claimed deity to want or need a marketing department or body guards. Why would an all powerful being need or want flawed humans to help it?

It would be like claiming the Terminator needs a midget to protect it. An all powerful god should not need or want human help.

[Alex K]

Ok then let's concentrate on that one if you say so.

I don't understand a single word. This summary is just gibberish to me. Maybe too compressed?

If we aren't perceived as we are, we don't have an exact value. We do have an exact value. Therefore we are perceived exactly as we are. The only Vision that can see our exact value is perfect judgment. 

Yes, this absolutely proves God.

I don't know what exactly you mean by being perceived as we are or having an exact value, nor do I know or understand why it is obvious that we have an exact value. All those things are not defined properly and at this point so vague that your proof is completely meaningless to me. Concerning your first sentence though: why would our having an exact value (whatever that means) depend on our being perceived? Why would the existence of perfect judgment prove God?

[Mystic]

Alex K, because it is qualitative and quantitative our value both which are not existing physically (even Atheists will not say their personality is a physical thing but a program of the brain though they believe it is pure produced physically).

That is why it requires perception.

Exact value means we have an accurate reality, but I am saying that reality and perception go together. We aren't the accurate perception, we exist beyond our own perception of ourselves. This requires a perfect seer to see us if we have an exact value as that value is derived and created from his perfect judgment.

[Brian37]

Ok then let's concentrate on that one if you say so.

I don't understand a single word. This summary is just gibberish to me. Maybe too compressed?

If we aren't perceived as we are, we don't have an exact value. We do have an exact value. Therefore we are perceived exactly as we are. The only Vision that can see our exact value is perfect judgment. 

Yes, this absolutely proves God.

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Mister Agenda, look forward to your reply. At least you tried to digest it and refute (though I believe you contradicted yourself in trying to do so and aren't realizing how obvious one of the premises you are denying is).

If I didn't perceive Ann McCarthy as she was she didn't have an exact value. She did have an exact value. Therefore I did perceive here exactly as she was. The only vision that can see her exact value is MY DREAMY EYED DELUSION that a cheerleader would fall in love with me because I wanted her to.

MK, you are not a bad guy, but you are simply concocting dreamy eyed language to justify your romance of an ideal utopia, in the same way I wanted cheerleader Ann McCarthy to fall in love with me.

Your computer science education is realistic. Your religious idealism isn't. You really sound like I did with Ann, but your obsession is a god. Stop pining after a utopia. Nobody is demanding you ditch your belief by force. But reality isn't a dream. You can do well and do good by facing reality instead of dreaming.

[Minimalist]

Number 1 rule of doubting, know when to stop doubting.

I'll stop doubting when you produce actual evidence and not a shitload of pious blather.

So far, you have failed miserably but that just puts you in the same boat as the jesus freaks we have around here.

Grow up, people.  There is no invisible sky-daddy.

[WinterHold]

I am always for human rights and always will be Atlass, and x Muslims also do what you do in pointing out how Islam in the east is causing huge problems between Sunnis and Shiites along with the rest of the world.

But this is not strictly about Islam for me. This is about the totality of the species in our entire global history. For the same reason Sunnis and Shiites cant get along, a Trump voting Evangelical does not see the bible or politics the same way a Obama voting baptist or Catholic does. It is still the same God and the same book they both use. The same can be said for why a Tibet Buddhist will not see Buddhism or politics the same way as a Chinese Buddhist or Japanese Shinto Buddhists.

I am glad that you are willing to be brave to challenge your fellow Muslims in that part of the world, and I hope in all seriousness you don't end up dead for your intellectual bravery. I may give you a hard time but I sincerely mean it. People like you if they grow in numbers can pull that part of the world into modern civility.

Islam did not invent human cruelty. In our species totality there is not one region in the world that has been 100% violence free.  Christians used to look like too much of the east still looks today. While I don't want Israel wiped off the map, they too have their right wing nuts whom use religion to justify harm of others. 

My point is our species far too widely fails to consider that the reasons we do good or bad are not a battle from above, but a failure to see our behaviors as being in us.

But yea, I most certainly can live with a Muslim like you even if you never leave your religion. I don't think you need your religion but I certainly would not abandon anyone who values non violence and common law regardless.

One reason I'm sure about for abandoning Islam, is the attempt to escape the wrong acts inflicted by some of the followers of the same religion.
For example; 






You can guess what kind of feeling something like this might trigger if you know what the truth actually says. x-Muslims are usually displaying a rebound in faith because of such destructive mentalities -like the one in the video-. The doctrines influence such mentality. With every ignorant fatwa, you'll find rebounds.

In other words; it's pretty inviting to criticize and oppose. Bullshit is bad; Brian. Especially when it costs lives and destruction. It's medieval Europe allover again. 
And hey; allergy to it is good allergy if you ask me.

I hope that harm stays away. And thank you for you wish; honestly !

Opposing Israel can take two sides in my view: for xenophobic reasons (because it's a majority of Jews), or from respecting the Palestinian ownership of the land. What I mainly concerned about in Israel, is the same thing that makes me concerned about American history, and it's the same thing that makes me concerned about the Arab invasion of Spain in the past.

You never invade and send natives homeless. But Israel should not be opposed because they are Jews. But because they cause years of misery to others, and all of it for a blue star on a flag.

We are not here to harm others; as far as I believe. But this life is intended to be a place where people might believe or disbelieve. But ignoring all that and go on a xenophobic rampage is only an indication of mental bankruptcy if you ask me.

[Edwardo Piet]

He's wrong. It's 2017. Get with the freaking program, Islam.

[Jehanne]

Brian you speak for yourself.

Any Atheist can always accept the proofs Theists offer for God and accept the reminders that point to his existence. *smiles*

Number 1 rule of doubting, know when to stop doubting.

ps - Thanks for the welcome back.

I once invited "god" for pizza & pop, but he was a no-show.

[Brian37]

I am always for human rights and always will be Atlass, and x Muslims also do what you do in pointing out how Islam in the east is causing huge problems between Sunnis and Shiites along with the rest of the world.

But this is not strictly about Islam for me. This is about the totality of the species in our entire global history. For the same reason Sunnis and Shiites cant get along, a Trump voting Evangelical does not see the bible or politics the same way a Obama voting baptist or Catholic does. It is still the same God and the same book they both use. The same can be said for why a Tibet Buddhist will not see Buddhism or politics the same way as a Chinese Buddhist or Japanese Shinto Buddhists.

I am glad that you are willing to be brave to challenge your fellow Muslims in that part of the world, and I hope in all seriousness you don't end up dead for your intellectual bravery. I may give you a hard time but I sincerely mean it. People like you if they grow in numbers can pull that part of the world into modern civility.

Islam did not invent human cruelty. In our species totality there is not one region in the world that has been 100% violence free.  Christians used to look like too much of the east still looks today. While I don't want Israel wiped off the map, they too have their right wing nuts whom use religion to justify harm of others. 

My point is our species far too widely fails to consider that the reasons we do good or bad are not a battle from above, but a failure to see our behaviors as being in us.

But yea, I most certainly can live with a Muslim like you even if you never leave your religion. I don't think you need your religion but I certainly would not abandon anyone who values non violence and common law regardless.

One reason I'm sure about for abandoning Islam, is the attempt to escape the wrong acts inflicted by some of the followers of the same religion.
For example; 






You can guess what kind of feeling something like this might trigger if you know what the truth actually says. x-Muslims are usually displaying a rebound in faith because of such destructive mentalities -like the one in the video-. The doctrines influence such mentality. With every ignorant fatwa, you'll find rebounds.

In other words; it's pretty inviting to criticize and oppose. Bullshit is bad; Brian. Especially when it costs lives and destruction. It's medieval Europe allover again. 
And hey; allergy to it is good allergy if you ask me.

I hope that harm stays away. And thank you for you wish; honestly !

Opposing Israel can take two sides in my view: for xenophobic reasons (because it's a majority of Jews), or from respecting the Palestinian ownership of the land. What I mainly concerned about in Israel, is the same thing that makes me concerned about American history, and it's the same thing that makes me concerned about the Arab invasion of Spain in the past.

You never invade and send natives homeless. But Israel should not be opposed because they are Jews.  But because they cause years of misery to others, and all of it for a blue star on a flag.

We are not here to harm others; as far as I believe. But this life is intended to be a place where people might believe or disbelieve. But ignoring all that and go on a xenophobic rampage is only an indication of mental bankruptcy if you ask me.

Atlass, in my non existent "utopia" that I am not insane to consider a possibility, religion would not exist at all. But that is not the reality our world's population of 7 billion lives in.

Yes, you have your science denying fuckface idiots and violent idiots, but so do Christians and Jews. Religion isn't going away. Islam didn't invent delusional people, neither did Christians or Jews, it is our species that values and protects what is local even when that value of that claim is wrong, or cruel. 

The best the world can do, is sure, weed out those who deny science, or promote violence justified by religion. 

If Christians and Muslims and Jews want to prove to me they are for peace, they can, I wish they would. But "peace" to most in the world is "peace" where the other is a guest or a subordinate. 

Funny you should mention the Sun rotating around the earth. There is a clock, I think in Venice Italy built several hundred years ago, displaying that same celestial meme. So stupidity isn't a patent owned by Islam.

[Astonished]

Am I going too far to say that in this case, the OP is an objectively worse person than otherwise, solely because of their faith?

I'm just thinking, all the hippy-dippy shit could be gotten without it, probably tempered better to boot as far as attitude so as to not come off as a less tolerable Ned Flanders, and far less illogical, naive and dishonest on the whole.