An alternative to atheist thought

[BlindedWantsToSee]

Hi. Are you perhaps going through a rough period in life?

... But I can tell your theory (or concept whichever you prefer) has religious roots, you know, spirits, one god, evil, etc.

You seem to be a kind person. I'm doing OK in every sense, according to normal standards. Thanks.

I believe my concept is rooted in facts. A spirit is the non-physical portion of a person, his or her consciousness. That's a fact. Evil is the cause of pain and suffering. We know everybody suffers. That's a fact. I don't believe in God; however, there has to be a primordial source in the universe. You and I have sources: Our parents. They had sources, which each also had a source. These are all facts. Let's go back 4 billions years: something produced the earth, and the earth became the source of all life on the planet. So the earth has a source and is a source also. Let's go back all the way; something gave rise to the first source of the material universe: The Source of all sources. This is a fact, not religious. The 1st cause (the one that preceded all of the other causes and effects) (think of the domino effect) has produced disgusting results, which we see and experience today. I know to most people it's no problem, but I don't believe it's right.

You know, it's easy to notice and interact with matter. Non-material things are more difficult to perceive, but don't make the mistake of believing they do not exist. It would be similar to claiming viruses or bacteria don't exist because we can't see them. I'm not talking about mysticism. There are thousands of cases of brief clinical deaths, where the people that were resuscitated report having experiences outside of their bodies,
This while their brains and hearts were dead. This is a fact. Concepts, ideas, feelings, thoughts, awareness, and the like are non-physical and very important to us. This is a fact. Religions lie and blind people. They seek to control people. Believe me, I'm not religious.

[Succubus]

BWTS, despite the bleak picture that you paint, I assert that there is still happiness to be found in this world.  It isn't an all-or-nothing proposition.

I try to focus my attention and energy on things that I can influence, even if to only a minuscule degree.  Readings in classical stoicism may be useful in this regard.

My take on life and happyness is that its like eating a from a bowl of salt with some sugar nuggets in there. Gotta enjoy them sugar nuggets.

Bingo! Happiness is something we glimpse occasionally, and the odd time it happens it go's bam! Right in the kisser.

[JackRussell]

Nothing wrong with being an ape that's aware,
Try not to give in to despair.

[BlindedWantsToSee]

The problem has to do with a sort of blindfold we have over our reasoning or understanding.   Since very  early in life, We are continuously trained to think in a certain way,  to interpret events in a certain way. This training does not let us see the signs because we've been taught to ignore them.  Take that away and the situation is very obvious.

This, and I say this without a hint of condescension, is the most coherent thing you've said so far. The 'we' you refer to are indeed the bulk of this planets populace, but then websites such as this are a counter to 'we' thinking. Ok, the majority of websites devoted to, and the promotion of, rational thinking are a wee bit more formal than this one, but not nearly as much fun. It matters not, some of us can and do see through the blindfold.
   It's a sad indictment on our education system that rational thinking hardly gets a mention, it should be one of the first things taught, and it's barely taught at all.

Thank you.

[Astonished]

Hi. Are you perhaps going through a rough period in life?

... But I can tell your theory (or concept whichever you prefer) has religious roots, you know, spirits, one god, evil, etc.

You seem to be a kind person.   I'm doing OK in every sense, according to normal standards. Thanks.

I believe my concept is rooted in facts. A spirit is the non-physical portion of a person,  his or her consciousness. That's a fact. Evil is the cause of pain and suffering. We know everybody suffers.  That's a fact. I don't believe in God; however,  there has to be a primordial source in the universe.  You and I have sources:  Our parents.  They had sources,  which each also had a source.  These are all facts.  Let's go back 4 billions years: something produced the earth, and the earth became the source of all life on the planet.  So the earth has a source and is a source also.  Let's go back all the way;  something gave rise to the first source of the material universe:  The Source of all sources.  This is a fact, not religious.  The 1st cause (the one that preceded all of the other causes and effects)  (think of the domino effect) has produced disgusting results,  which we see and experience today. I know to most people it's no problem,  but I don't believe it's right.

You know, it's easy to notice and interact with matter.  Non-material things are more difficult to perceive,  but don't make the mistake of believing  they do not exist.  It would be similar to claiming viruses or bacteria don't exist because we can't see them. I'm not talking about mysticism. There are thousands of cases of brief clinical deaths, where the people that were resuscitated report having experiences outside of their bodies,
This while their brains  and hearts were dead.   This is a fact. Concepts,  ideas,  feelings,  thoughts, awareness,  and the like are non-physical and very important to us.  This is a fact.  Religions lie and blind people.   They seek to control people. Believe me,  I'm not religious.

You say there's nothing wrong in the 'normal' sense but when you demonstrate that you have such a fundamental misunderstanding of facts that my 7-year-old self would be embarrassed to witness, that gives us reason to doubt. Do you not understand the difference between an assertion and actual evidence of that assertion?

You're also playing with definitions, a trademark of the religious. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...please, just stop insulting our intelligence, kid.

[SaStrike]

Hi. Are you perhaps going through a rough period in life?

... But I can tell your theory (or concept whichever you prefer) has religious roots, you know, spirits, one god, evil, etc.

You seem to be a kind person.   I'm doing OK in every sense, according to normal standards. Thanks.

I believe my concept is rooted in facts. A spirit is the non-physical portion of a person,  his or her consciousness. That's a fact. Evil is the cause of pain and suffering. We know everybody suffers.  That's a fact. I don't believe in God; however,  there has to be a primordial source in the universe.  You and I have sources:  Our parents.  They had sources,  which each also had a source.  These are all facts.  Let's go back 4 billions years: something produced the earth, and the earth became the source of all life on the planet.  So the earth has a source and is a source also.  Let's go back all the way;  something gave rise to the first source of the material universe:  The Source of all sources.  This is a fact, not religious.  The 1st cause (the one that preceded all of the other causes and effects)  (think of the domino effect) has produced disgusting results,  which we see and experience today. I know to most people it's no problem,  but I don't believe it's right.

You know, it's easy to notice and interact with matter.  Non-material things are more difficult to perceive,  but don't make the mistake of believing  they do not exist.  It would be similar to claiming viruses or bacteria don't exist because we can't see them. I'm not talking about mysticism. There are thousands of cases of brief clinical deaths, where the people that were resuscitated report having experiences outside of their bodies,
This while their brains  and hearts were dead.   This is a fact. Concepts,  ideas,  feelings,  thoughts, awareness,  and the like are non-physical and very important to us.  This is a fact.  Religions lie and blind people.   They seek to control people. Believe me,  I'm not religious.

Thanks for the compliment. A spirit isn't a fact though.

What do you mean "something gave rise to the first source of the material universe"?

In my opinion, the material and energy in the universe has always been there, just changing states and forms. No source (that brings up the whole something out of nothing problem and the source of the source etc). Life on earth is just a part of the material universe changing states. I've read through your chapters again and I guess you just aren't happy with what happens during life on earth, how we need to eat for example (again, just energy conversion, and yes, it can be seen as wrong or evil by our sensitive brains and conscience we developed over the years). Killing yourself just isn't the solution though. But if you're not happy and convinced of the whole life is evil theory, then I can't help further.

Was an interesting read (read it twice!) 

Take care.

[BlindedWantsToSee]

You seem to be a kind person.   I'm doing OK in every sense, according to normal standards. Thanks.

You say there's nothing wrong in the 'normal' sense but when you demonstrate that you have such a fundamental misunderstanding of facts that my 7-year-old self would be embarrassed to witness, that gives us reason to doubt. Do you not understand the difference between an assertion and actual evidence of that assertion?

You're also playing with definitions, a trademark of the religious. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...please, just stop insulting our intelligence, kid.

I'm sorry. I assure you, no offense was ever meant by anything I said.

I said "normal standards" to avoid specifying that I am OK emotionally, financially, in family relationships, health-wise, etc; but not OK by the standards I postulated in my writings.

I'm not sure what you mean with your question, but I think I can tell the difference between an assertion and it's evidence. I rely on the evidence and advise everyone to do the same. The assertions I make are my best attempt (I know they are lacking, but that's the best I can do for now) to describe the reality I perceive (my interpretation of the evidence that I experience). I don't want to convince anybody of anything. I just hope people will start seeing things for what they are, and will make their own deliberate decisions regarding what to do with their reality.

[drfuzzy]

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Hi. Are you perhaps going through a rough period in life?

... But I can tell your theory (or concept whichever you prefer) has religious roots, you know, spirits, one god, evil, etc.

---

                

---

You seem to be a kind person.   I'm doing OK in every sense, according to normal standards. Thanks.

---

I believe my concept is rooted in facts. A spirit is the non-physical portion of a person,  his or her consciousness. That's a fact.

---

Evil is the cause of pain and suffering. We know everybody suffers.  That's a fact. I don't believe in God; however,  there has to be a primordial source in the universe.  You and I have sources:  Our parents.  They had sources,  which each also had a source.  These are all facts.  Let's go back 4 billions years: something produced the earth, and the earth became the source of all life on the planet.  So the earth has a source and is a source also.  Let's go back all the way;  something gave rise to the first source of the material universe:  The Source of all sources.  This is a fact, not religious.  The 1st cause (the one that preceded all of the other causes and effects)  (think of the domino effect) has produced disgusting results,  which we see and experience today. I know to most people it's no problem,  but I don't believe it's right.

You know, it's easy to notice and interact with matter.  Non-material things are more difficult to perceive,  but don't make the mistake of believing  they do not exist.  It would be similar to claiming viruses or bacteria don't exist because we can't see them. I'm not talking about mysticism. There are thousands of cases of brief clinical deaths, where the people that were resuscitated report having experiences outside of their bodies,
This while their brains  and hearts were dead.   This is a fact. Concepts,  ideas,  feelings,  thoughts, awareness,  and the like are non-physical and very important to us.  This is a fact.  Religions lie and blind people.   They seek to control people. Believe me,  I'm not religious.

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Nope.  There is no human "soul".  There is no human "spirit".  There is no afterlife.  You start with a false statement.  There is no evidence that there is any non-corporeal form for any living being.  
Non-material things are difficult to perceive because they don't exist.  So new-age philosophical woo just fills in blanks with anything fun.
Religions do lie and blind people.  So does new-age spirituality.  It's just more fun because there is less dogma and control.

[BlindedWantsToSee]

Thanks for the compliment. A spirit isn't a fact though.

What do you mean "something gave rise to the first source of the material universe"?

In my opinion, the material and energy in the universe has always been there, just changing states and forms. No source (that brings up the whole something out of nothing problem and the source of the source etc). Life on earth is just a part of the material universe changing states. I've read through your chapters again and I guess you just aren't happy with what happens during life on earth, how we need to eat for example (again, just energy conversion, and yes, it can be seen as wrong or evil by our sensitive brains and conscience we developed over the years). Killing yourself just isn't the solution though. But if you're not happy and convinced of the whole life is evil theory, then I can't help further.

Was an interesting read (read it twice!) 

Take care.

I'm flattered . I think your concept and mine are not so incompatible. I think they are both true and correct. If I were to speak in the same terms you are speaking, I would say that universal energy is the Source of all forms. Something causes the forms and their states, and the changes in states. Call it energy, the source, spirit, or whatever; the name does not matter. The fact is, It is there. That's what I wrote about.

I think life is like a game. I don't agree with the owners and the coaches. I don't like how the game is played. So I'm passing judgement on this game to myself and eventually, it is my goal, to stop playing all together. That's my decision. I accept whatever my teammates decide for themselves and wish them well.

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---

You seem to be a kind person.   I'm doing OK in every sense, according to normal standards. Thanks.

---

I believe my concept is rooted in facts. A spirit is the non-physical portion of a person,  his or her consciousness. That's a fact.

---

Evil is the cause of pain and suffering. We know everybody suffers.  That's a fact. I don't believe in God; however,  there has to be a primordial source in the universe.  You and I have sources:  Our parents.  They had sources,  which each also had a source.  These are all facts.  Let's go back 4 billions years: something produced the earth, and the earth became the source of all life on the planet.  So the earth has a source and is a source also.  Let's go back all the way;  something gave rise to the first source of the material universe:  The Source of all sources.  This is a fact, not religious.  The 1st cause (the one that preceded all of the other causes and effects)  (think of the domino effect) has produced disgusting results,  which we see and experience today. I know to most people it's no problem,  but I don't believe it's right.

You know, it's easy to notice and interact with matter.  Non-material things are more difficult to perceive,  but don't make the mistake of believing  they do not exist.  It would be similar to claiming viruses or bacteria don't exist because we can't see them. I'm not talking about mysticism. There are thousands of cases of brief clinical deaths, where the people that were resuscitated report having experiences outside of their bodies,
This while their brains  and hearts were dead.   This is a fact. Concepts,  ideas,  feelings,  thoughts, awareness,  and the like are non-physical and very important to us.  This is a fact.  Religions lie and blind people.   They seek to control people. Believe me,  I'm not religious.

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Nope.  There is no human "soul".  There is no human "spirit".  There is no afterlife.  You start with a false statement.  There is no evidence that there is any non-corporeal form for any living being.  
Non-material things are difficult to perceive because they don't exist.  So new-age philosophical woo just fills in blanks with anything fun.
Religions do lie and blind people.  So does new-age spirituality.  It's just more fun because there is less dogma and control.

I agree with you about New Age crap, but I think you are making a mistake. How do you explain the testimonies of thousands of people that have had life after death experiences? These people where completely brain dead for brief periods of times, but they were conscious and had experiences outside of their bodies.

[brewer]

OP, while you claim not to be religious you certainly share the same delusional thoughts/thought patterns with the religious. 

Do you understand that your delusions only appear significant and meaningful to you? 

You state "I believe my concept is rooted in facts.". A fact should be readily apparent, demonstrable and agreed upon by all people, or at least a majority. Based on the posts so far it does not appear that you've supported that your view(s) are factual. Can you supply me with objective facts to support your view(s)? How about we take them one at a time for discussion sake.