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The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
#21
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: Two points. 

1. I believe (with Biblical support) that if someone has not heard of Jesus Christ and been given a chance to respond, then he will judge them on the basis of their response to what was provided them.

I was hoping that by now, you would have understood that biblical support means jack shit around here. That horse is dead to the bone.
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#22
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:34 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 2:12 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote: How do you calculate the probability of what an infinitely knowing and powerful entity can do?

Because creating people and orchestrating circumstances where everyone always FREELY chooses good seems actually impossible to do. Simon's reasoning depends on it being actually possible.

Wow. Seems actually impossible.  No wriggle room there. Rolleyes
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing."  - Samuel Porter Putnam
 
           

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#23
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm)LastPoet Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: Two points. 

1. I believe (with Biblical support) that if someone has not heard of Jesus Christ and been given a chance to respond, then he will judge them on the basis of their response to what was provided them.

I was hoping that by now, you would have understood that biblical support means jack shit around here. That horse is dead to the bone.

They never get it LP.
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#24
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:41 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I believe (with Biblical support)

In other words, pulled out of your ass.

Good God, are we going to redo special pleading.
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#25
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:46 pm)LastPoet Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: Two points. 

1. I believe (with Biblical support) that if someone has not heard of Jesus Christ and been given a chance to respond, then he will judge them on the basis of their response to what was provided them.

I was hoping that by now, you would have understood that biblical support means jack shit around here. That horse is dead to the bone.

Your reply adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. The whole OP outlines beliefs only found in the Bible and then when I reply to a specific point, also referencing the Bible...?
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#26
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 3:01 pm)JackRussell Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 2:41 pm)Minimalist Wrote: In other words, pulled out of your ass.

Good God, are we going to redo special pleading.

So it seems.
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#27
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:34 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 2:12 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote: How do you calculate the probability of what an infinitely knowing and powerful entity can do?

Because creating people and orchestrating circumstances where everyone always FREELY chooses good seems actually impossible to do. Simon's reasoning depends on it being actually possible.

Since you're neither omniscient nor omnipotent, I find your speculation and assertions woefully uninformed.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#28
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(September 25, 2017 at 7:19 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: All the while, he fails the other billions of his creation all over the world, to inform them of this important message, allowing them to follow their 'invented religions' only to assure their failure to pass his 'Soul Filter'. And he does this, knowing in advance, that his rules will assure it will happen. [1]

Why didn't this god create all the souls he wanted to spend eternity with in the first place? After all, he knows exactly which souls are going to make it though his filtering machine in the first place. Supposedly he knew this before he even created the universe. [2]

Two points. 

1. I believe (with Biblical support) that if someone has not heard of Jesus Christ and been given a chance to respond, then he will judge them on the basis of their response to what was provided them.

Then, doesn't it seem unfair, to cultures that have never heard of Jesus, to send missionaries to tell them? Seems to me, they are better off not knowing, so they won't be judged on whether they believe or not.



Quote:2. It is entirely probable that even with infinite knowledge and power, it is simply not possible to create only people who would freely always choose good. So, given free will, the choices God had was to create no one or a world in which many would not freely choose good.

So then, don't create people at all. Just create the souls he wants to spend eternity with in the first place. Instead of creating a situation that assures, that some high percentage of your creation will not make it through the Soul Filtering device.

Is there free will in Heaven?

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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#29
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 2:34 pm)SteveII Wrote: Because creating people and orchestrating circumstances where everyone always FREELY chooses good seems actually impossible to do. Simon's reasoning depends on it being actually possible.

Since you're neither omniscient nor omnipotent, I find your speculation and assertions woefully uninformed.

Clever. However, Simon would need to show that it is plausibly actually possible for his objection to carry any weight. I don't think that is something he or you can do. Omnipotence does not mean the ability to do things that are not possible, especially not within the context of a overriding goal: free will.
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#30
RE: The universe is just one enormous 'Soul Filtering machine'
(September 26, 2017 at 4:58 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(September 26, 2017 at 4:27 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Since you're neither omniscient nor omnipotent, I find your speculation and assertions woefully uninformed.

Clever. However, Simon would need to show that it is plausibly actually possible for his objection to carry any weight. I don't think that is something he or you can do. Omnipotence does not mean the ability to do things that are not possible, especially not within the context of a overriding goal: free will.


It sure seems like omnipotence gets more and more, shall we say, impotent, as more and more objections are raised.


Again I ask, is there free will in Heaven?

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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