(September 25, 2017 at 9:05 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

That must have been one dodgy vindaloo!

So it's "get thru the filter". Do the christians know that they need to be on a jesus lite diet?

(September 25, 2017 at 7:19 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: When I look at Christian doctrine and dogma, I can't come to any other conclusion. I guess the same goes for Islam, also.

The 'god' character in this little melodrama we find ourselves in, created our galaxy with at least 100 billion stars, in a universe with at least 100 billion similar galaxies. So far, over 3600 exoplanets have been discovered, about 40 of them are not to dissimilar to earth, and in the habitable zone. That makes at least 40 billion planets in our galaxy alone that are in the habitable zone.

So, all this was created, so we humans can live out our measly 80 or so years in this universe, on one planet, orbiting a nondescript star, in a nondescript corner of one of 100 billion galaxies, as a means for the 'god' to determine if we are able to continue to the 'real life'. Which makes our life here, nothing more than a cosmic joke. Just a place to wipe our feet until we get to the after life.  

All this, for no other reason, than to filter out the souls that don't pass his obscure 'test'.

And, so we are told, the 'god' wants us to be with him for eternity, so how does he go about making sure we get this important message? I mean, he wants us to pass through his filter, right? So, he will obviously make the rules easy to understand, and communicate them equally well to all humanity, right?

He appears to a small group of hairless apes, in a small area of the planet, to convey his message. Does all sorts of miracles, that would no doubt convince those primitive tribesmen, that he exists. Then, waits centuries, to appear again, only to sacrifice himself, to himself to act as a loophole for rules he created.

Then, did he record this message in some way as to assure that it would be passed down to all humanity in the clearest way possible? No, he inspires flawed humans to record it, decades, or more after the alleged events, on little pieces of parchment, in a language he would have known would die out. He would have also known would it would be susceptible to: copy error, editing, being lost, being misinterpreted, mistranslated, etc.

All the while, he fails the other billions of his creation all over the world, to inform them of this important message, allowing them to follow their 'invented religions' only to assure their failure to pass his 'Soul Filter'. And he does this, knowing in advance, that his rules will assure it will happen.

Why didn't this god create all the souls he wanted to spend eternity with in the first place? After all, he knows exactly which souls are going to make it though his filtering machine in the first place. Supposedly he knew this before he even created the universe.

Oh, and also...don't eat shell fish.  That's important.

Quote:That's important.

Especially when you live in a fucking desert!

(September 25, 2017 at 7:19 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: All the while, he fails the other billions of his creation all over the world, to inform them of this important message, allowing them to follow their 'invented religions' only to assure their failure to pass his 'Soul Filter'. And he does this, knowing in advance, that his rules will assure it will happen. [1]

Why didn't this god create all the souls he wanted to spend eternity with in the first place? After all, he knows exactly which souls are going to make it though his filtering machine in the first place. Supposedly he knew this before he even created the universe. [2]

Two points. 

1. I believe (with Biblical support) that if someone has not heard of Jesus Christ and been given a chance to respond, then he will judge them on the basis of their response to what was provided them.
2. It is entirely probable that even with infinite knowledge and power, it is simply not possible to create only people who would freely always choose good. So, given free will, the choices God had was to create no one or a world in which many would not freely choose good.

(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: 2. It is entirely probable that even with infinite knowledge and power, it is simply not possible to create only people who would freely always choose good. So, given free will, the choices God had was to create no one or a world in which many would not freely choose good.

How do you calculate the probability of what an infinitely knowing and powerful entity can do?

The OP summarizes one of the main reasons why I became an atheist.  Maybe, if a person is ignorant of evolution, of the age of the earth, what the stars are, the billions upon billions of other galaxies and the unfathomable distances even in our own solar system . . . Maybe, if a person only has knowledge of a small area of earth and believes that god watches everything and that illness is caused by sin and drought means god is mad at you . . . Just maybe, that person would find the bible narrative believable.  But now, you have to have it hammered into your brain as a child, and you have to not ask questions.  Questions like why a deity (who created all the universe, and apparently killed the dinosaurs to make room for apes) would appear only to a tiny tribe living in an area smaller than Lake Michigan?  Why is this deity's mode of communication so incompetent?  What about the millions of people who lived before the Habaru tribes split from other Canaanite tribes and decided they weren't going to eat any more pork or shellfish?  Nothing makes sense here, nothing is rational.  Any deity who actually created the planet would know that there was never a Garden of Eden and no original sin and no great flood or tower of babel . . . and that the earth is round and that the stars are not fixed in the dome of the sky.
And souls - - - the afterlife - - - these make no sense either, no matter how lovely it may be to fantasize that one's consciousness will never be extinguished.  
When I think of the vastness of the universe and the insignificance of the Earth - - - it just hammers the ridiculousness of religion into my brain.

(September 26, 2017 at 2:12 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 2:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: 2. It is entirely probable that even with infinite knowledge and power, it is simply not possible to create only people who would freely always choose good. So, given free will, the choices God had was to create no one or a world in which many would not freely choose good.

How do you calculate the probability of what an infinitely knowing and powerful entity can do?

Because creating people and orchestrating circumstances where everyone always FREELY chooses good seems actually impossible to do. Simon's reasoning depends on it being actually possible.

(September 26, 2017 at 2:34 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(September 26, 2017 at 2:12 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote: How do you calculate the probability of what an infinitely knowing and powerful entity can do?

Because creating people and orchestrating circumstances where everyone always FREELY chooses good seems actually impossible to do. Simon's reasoning depends on it being actually possible.

What seems impossible to an omnipotent being?

Quote:I believe (with Biblical support)

In other words, pulled out of your ass.