Is religion cause of most wars?

[Catholic_Lady]

Actually I'm upset because such an insulting and dishonest comment came from someone I actually really liked and respected.

If it had been the likes of Astonished or something who had said that, you better believe I wouldn't have given a fuck.

I'm just wondering if maybe the beliefs to which you adhere were aligned with the beliefs to which Bin Laden adhered, would there be much of a discrepencancy between to two of you in relation to those religious beliefs alone, not necessarily how the two of you personally interpreted those religious beliefs?

Im not sure what you mean.

[Foxaèr]

I'm just wondering if maybe the beliefs to which you adhere were aligned with the beliefs to which Bin Laden adhered, would there be much of a discrepencancy between to two of you in relation to those religious beliefs alone, not necessarily how the two of you personally interpreted those religious beliefs?

Im not sure what you mean.

I mean if one was to compare your core religious beliefs to that of Bin Laden's core religious beliefs, I'm wondering how much of a dissent would there be in how the both of you accepted the same core belief in relation to god.

Maybe I'm just wrong and should wait for Agenda's clarification.

[Mister Agenda]

They were militant communists.

You have more in common with Osama bin Laden because you're a Christian than I have in common with Stalin because I'm an atheist.

Yes, they were militant communists as well. But they were also militant atheists who tried to eradicate religion and tried to make their country atheist.

As for your second comment there, it's infuriating, insulting, completely false, and not even worth a response.

You're not required to engage, nor are you required to announce you won't engage. I'll just take this as an invitation to elaborate on my point.

You can't be militant about atheism or theism. You are misattributing what it is that the persons you are considering are being militant about, and what makes someone militant. I know 'militant atheist' is a popular expression, but people are militant about a cause, and neither atheism nor theism are causes. The are opinions about whether God is real.

Now, presumably, Stalin did not believe in God. Neither do I. Without going into our mutual bipedalism, that is what we have in common. He was a communist, I'm closer to 'progressive libertarian'. He was a totalitarian, I'm a humanist. He believed in the dialectic of history, I'm more into rational skepticism. When it comes to positions, atheism is about all we've got in common. Because atheism doesn't have anything that follows from it. Neither does theism. You can be an atheist and be a communist or Republican or choir director. You can be a theist and be a communist or Republican or choir director, too.

But look at what you have in common with Osama bin Laden because you're a Catholic: You both believe in a creator God who revealed himself (and it's definitely a 'him') in the Middle East, a Jesus (or Yeshua or Isa) who was born of a virgin and performed miracles and was sentenced by the Romans to be crucified and will return on Judgment Day. These are orthodox Muslim beliefs shared by Christians. You and bin Laden believe in an afterlife with eternal paradise and eternal torment options. The list of similarities between Muslim and Christian belief is pretty extensive, because Islam has Christian roots.

Now, you have no more in common with Osama bin Laden because you're a theist than I do with Stalin because I'm an atheist. But as a Christian you have many fundamental beliefs similar to bin Laden's. This is simply factual.

If you find it offensive, I'd avoid bringing up Stalin in regard to atheism, because it is simply hypocritical to then get offended (and infuriated and insulted) if I bring up Osama bin Laden in regard to Christianity, when Islam and Christianity are kissing cousins. If you ever want to compare totalitarian communism with Christianity ( or humanism), that would be apples to apples. Communism to atheism (or theism) is apples to oranges.

[paulpablo]

Some people claim religion has caused the most wars throughout the history of mankind, but. In the book encyclopedia of wars it says out of 1763 wars only 126 were caused because of religion. Theists also defend themselves by saying that atheists have killed more people than religious people (Stalin, Zedong...). How would you respond? Does religion play a role in wars or it has nothing to do with it?

I remember a ridiculously good looking new girl at my old job talking with me about this, she took the position that all wars were caused by religion. 

It broke my heart to disagree with her but I had to do it.  I think it's easy to list a lot of wars and political violence that is caused by religion but most of it has some underlying cause of resources.

On a side note, a bit of a rant.  I had that convo one day before I left for my new job.  For years before that the only convo from people I got in the break room is football and how drunk everyone got at the weekend.  On my last day before I have to leave a new girl gets sent in who looks like some sort of Meditaranian beauty queen and she's giving out convos with substance.  Ironically it almost got me believing in punishments from god.

As for people who kill the most if you want to answer in a technical and accurate form then you would have to consider who has directly kill the most people, probably the people in charge of atomic bombs, I don't know their religion.

If it's who happened to be in charge when organizations kill there are a few atheist communists up there.

[Foxaèr]

I remember a ridiculously good looking new girl at my old job talking with me about this, she took the position that all wars were caused by religion. 

It broke my heart to disagree with her but I had to do it.

You shouldn't have to put on a mask with a potential romantic partner just to reel that person in only to unmask later. If she was really into you, she would have been okay with you disagreeing with her in the beginning.

[Minimalist]

and trying to make his country atheist

He wasn't trying to make it atheist.  He was trying to make it communist.  Or at least "collectivist."

I think you are confusing your commies, C/L.

Religion is the opium of the people: this saying of Marx is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.

V. I. Lenin

The Bolsheviks confiscated all church property within the first two years of the revolution.  This was long before Stalin arose.

[Catholic_Lady]

Agenda,

You can be a militant anything if you have a strong positive opposition to views that are opposite of your own. Atheism is no different. Atheism simply means that you have no religious beliefs and don't believe in any God(s). But you can absolutely be a "militant atheist" if apart from that, you have a strong positive opposition to religious belief and those who hold them, and are active in fighting against it. So much so that you would make it a point to erradicate religion and kill religious folks. Which is what happened in the Soviet union. It's incredibly dishonest to say you can't be a militant atheist or that Stalin and company weren't militant atheists.

As for your last paragraph...

You associate me with Bin Laden because he is a Radical Islamist and I'm a Christian, and that somehow makes his views and my views "kissing cousins". But when I simply point out that Stalin was an atheist on a thread that is specifically about his atheism, it's like "Ohhh no no no. Can't say that!"

I'm not even associating him with any of you. In fact, I made it a point to say on one of my first posts here that he doesn't speak for atheists, whom I said are vastly decent, normal people. I simply said, on topic, that he was an atheist and was motivated in large part by his extreme opposition to theism to do heinous things to people of faith. Pointing that out doesn't mean I'm saying he speaks for atheism or atheist folks.

I don't see where I am being hypocritical, and in fact feel like the hypocrisy and double standards in your posts are astounding. Which is incredibly disapointing because i saw you as one of the more fair, objective people here. Ive honestly lost so much respect for you.

---

Im not sure what you mean.

I mean if one was to compare your core religious beliefs to that of Bin Laden's core religious beliefs, I'm wondering how much of a dissent would there be in how the both of you accepted the same core belief in relation to god.

Maybe I'm just wrong and should wait for Agenda's clarification.

Still don't get what you mean. You talk about us having different core beliefs and then say we have the the same core beliefs. What?

[paulpablo]

I remember a ridiculously good looking new girl at my old job talking with me about this, she took the position that all wars were caused by religion. 

It broke my heart to disagree with her but I had to do it.

You shouldn't have to put on a mask with a potential romantic partner just to reel that person in only to unmask later.  If she was really into you, she would have been okay with you disagreeing with her in the beginning.

I told her I disagreed with her, she was ok with me disagreeing with her we had a relatively good convo about it.  She kind of agreed with me in the end, admitting not all wars are caused by religion and I listed various big religious conflicts saying I understood why she might be of the mindset that religion causes all war because I agree it can cause a lot of conflict.

[Foxaèr]

I told her I disagreed with her, she was ok with me disagreeing with her we had a relatively good convo about it.  She kind of agreed with me in the end, admitting not all wars are caused by religion and I listed various big religious conflicts saying I understood why she might be of the mindset that religion causes all war because I agree it can cause a lot of conflict.

So, she friend zoned you?

[paulpablo]

I told her I disagreed with her, she was ok with me disagreeing with her we had a relatively good convo about it.  She kind of agreed with me in the end, admitting not all wars are caused by religion and I listed various big religious conflicts saying I understood why she might be of the mindset that religion causes all war because I agree it can cause a lot of conflict.

So, she friend zoned you?

It was the last time I spoke with her, that's what I was talking about.  I worked for years and years at that place dealing mostly with convos about booze and football then a girl with deep convo skills comes in and its on my last day of working there.

As the words were coming out of her mouth I was thinking where the fuck have you been for the past few years.  But the convo/joke skills of the people I work with now is pretty high so I'm not bitter.