The Diem/Catholicism angle in the early 1960s Vietnam was a huge surprise to me as discussed during Ken Burns Vietnam series.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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Is religion cause of most wars?
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 RE: Is religion cause of most wars?
October 4, 2017 at 5:48 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 5:49 pm by Mister Agenda.)
Catholic_Lady Wrote:Of course he was intolerant of opposition. Most tyrants are. But I really don't like the double standard here. Yall are so quick to blame religion for evil deeds (and rightfully so a lot of the times), but when an atheist starts killing religious folks, destroying churches, taking away people's freedom of religion, and trying to make his country atheist... All of the sudden his atheism has nothing to do with his motivations? Come on... Thank you for elaborating. Theism is not the cause of any wars. Mere belief in the existence of some sort of deity is not a position from which motivation can be derived. More is required. No one ever killed the infidel in the name of a hazy feeling that some sort of supernatural creator exists. No one kills in the name of mere theism. And no one kills in the name of mere atheism, either. Atheism (and theism) are not in the same category as religion (or ideology).
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
 RE: Is religion cause of most wars?
October 4, 2017 at 5:55 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 5:55 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
It is true that atheism in and of itself is not a positive belief that religion should be forcefully eradicated (just as Christianity in and of itself is not a positive belief that other faiths should be forcefully eradicated).
But the Soviet Union's particular brand of militant atheism had a very strong positive opposition to religion and religious folks. Obviously.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh RE: Is religion cause of most wars?
October 4, 2017 at 5:57 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 5:59 pm by Mister Agenda.)
They were militant communists.
You have more in common with Osama bin Laden because you're a Christian than I have in common with Stalin because I'm an atheist. And Osama bin Laden was a militant Muslim, not a militant theist, except in the sense of being a theist who happened to also be militant about his belief system. Theism is an opinion on the existence of deities, not a belief system.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
(October 4, 2017 at 5:41 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ohh ok... When a person specifically commits their evil deed in the name of god, it's fair to take them at their word. When you try to argue that someone killed someone in the name of nothing...well....your standard misapprehensions aren't quite as credible as their faithful outbursts.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Is religion cause of most wars?
October 4, 2017 at 6:02 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 6:04 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(October 4, 2017 at 5:57 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: They were militant communists. Yes, they were militant communists as well. But they were also militant atheists who tried to eradicate religion and tried to make their country atheist. You're being dishonest. As for your second comment there, it's infuriating, insulting, completely false, and not even worth a response.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh  (October 4, 2017 at 6:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As for your second comment there, it's infuriating, insulting, completely false, and not even worth a response. Often, the best way to know it's the truth is if it upsets you.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter (October 4, 2017 at 6:04 pm)Lutrinae Wrote:(October 4, 2017 at 6:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As for your second comment there, it's infuriating, insulting, completely false, and not even worth a response. Actually I'm upset because such an insulting and dishonest comment came from someone I actually really liked and respected. If it had been the likes of Astonished or something who had said that, you better believe I wouldn't have given a fuck.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh (October 4, 2017 at 6:09 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Actually I'm upset because such an insulting and dishonest comment came from someone I actually really liked and respected. I'm just wondering if maybe the beliefs to which you adhere were aligned with the beliefs to which Bin Laden adhered, would there be much of a discrepencancy between to two of you in relation to those religious beliefs alone, not necessarily how the two of you personally interpreted those religious beliefs?
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter RE: Is religion cause of most wars?
October 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm
(This post was last modified: October 4, 2017 at 6:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
When people you like and respect are saying things about you that you would imagine more likely from some dipshit who seemingly hates you on principle...the problem might be you, and not the dishonesty of the dipshit -or- the person whom you respect.
Sorry, Astonished..I don't actually think you're a dipshit (at least not all the time.....  ) ...just rolling with it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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