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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 10:07 am
(October 15, 2017 at 10:05 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 10:01 am)chimp3 Wrote: I provided you the biblical context as a human creation. So is your imaginary teacher. Have you ever considered that your god does not know anything that its human creators do not?
When i sayed teacher i reffered to a human teacher , without supernatural conotations .
It is a posibility that in terms of science he wouldn't know more than us , but in term of good and right he has perfection.
(October 15, 2017 at 9:56 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Doesn't that only mean that god is not a very adept creator or teacher?
I think that is where free will comes up , the only thing independent of God. Your silly!
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 10:07 am
Doesn;t look to be the case, by reference to the bible. I doubt there's a single moral question bible-god doesn't get impressively wrong throughout it's entirety.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 10:11 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2017 at 10:14 am by GUBU.)
(October 15, 2017 at 9:15 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: but I don't believe in religion I believe in God
That's just semantics like saying you "don't like cereals, you like Kellog's corn flakes". If you believe in a deity then you are religious to at least a certain extent, and if you are religious then you believe in a religion.
Now when are you going to stop playing word games and make a substantive argument?
P.S. I can and will say that the Abrahamic god doesn't exist, and I will be right in saying so. god is given certain attributes in the bible, a large number of which perclude god from having any other attributes, the most glaring of which is when he is described as both all powerful and all knowing. You cannot be all powerful when you know everything, because your knowledge of the future means that there is only one single path that you can follow (if you can know the future with certainty then that future is determinsitc), therefore your knowledge constrains and limits your power. It also works vice versa.
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 10:16 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2017 at 10:17 am by notimportant1234.)
(October 15, 2017 at 10:07 am)Khemikal Wrote: Doesn;t look to be the case, by reference to the bible. I doubt there's a single moral question bible-god doesn't get impressively wrong throughout it's entirety.
I just use the bible , I'm not limiting at it. It is some kind of a start point .If it will be proven that it doesn't exist , it won't bother me much .
(October 15, 2017 at 10:11 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 9:15 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: but I don't believe in religion I believe in God
That's just semantics like saying you "don't like cereals, you like Kellog's corn flakes". If you believe in a deity then you are religious to at least a certain extent, and if you are religious then you believe in a religion.
Now when are you going to stop playing word games and make a substantive argument?
P.S. I can and will say that the Abrahamic god doesn't exist, and I will be right in saying so. god is given certain attributes in the bible, a large number of which perclude god from having any other attributes, the most glaring of which is when he is described as both all powerful and all knowing. You cannot be all powerful when you know everything, because your knowledge of the future means that there is only one single path that you can follow (if you can know the future with certainty then that future is determinsitc), therefore your knowledge constrains and limits your power. It also works vice versa.
I'm going in a Deist direction.
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 10:30 am
(October 15, 2017 at 10:16 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 10:07 am)Khemikal Wrote: Doesn;t look to be the case, by reference to the bible. I doubt there's a single moral question bible-god doesn't get impressively wrong throughout it's entirety.
I just use the bible , I'm not limiting at it. It is some kind of a start point .If it will be proven that it doesn't exist , it won't bother me much . Who's talking about god existing? The deity of the myth simply cannot be a case example of moral perfection, nor is it an example of a deity that knows more about morality or any other thing..than we do.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 10:38 am
(October 15, 2017 at 10:30 am)Khemikal Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 10:16 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: I just use the bible , I'm not limiting at it. It is some kind of a start point .If it will be proven that it doesn't exist , it won't bother me much . Who's talking about god existing? The deity of the myth simply cannot be a case example of moral perfection, nor is it an example of a deity that knows more about morality or any other thing..than we do.
If i understood right , that is the case because the deity of the myth can't be perfetly moral because it is our design of it , wich comes from a imperfect moral mind that can't create for sure that perfection because it can't realise where it is wrong :-?
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 11:23 am
(October 15, 2017 at 10:05 am)notimportant1234 Wrote:
(October 15, 2017 at 9:56 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Doesn't that only mean that god is not a very adept creator or teacher?
I think that is where free will comes up , the only thing independent of God.
If god is omniscient, then free will is an illusion.
But since god is mans creation it doesn't really matter.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 11:27 am
(October 15, 2017 at 11:23 am)mh.brewer Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 10:05 am)notimportant1234 Wrote:
I think that is where free will comes up , the only thing independent of God.
If god is omniscient, then free will is an illusion.
I don't see why ?
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 11:30 am
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2017 at 11:36 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(October 15, 2017 at 9:28 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 9:19 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: God was wrong to punish Adam for doing something that he (Adam) could not possibly have known was wrong. He ate from the tree of Knowledge Of Good and Evil. He would not have been able to tell right from wrong prior to the wrong act for which he was punished.
Not just a myth, but a particularly stupid and clumsy one.
Boru But , from what I know , God gave him everything in the garden of Eden and forbid him to take the apple because he didn't need it. Adam taking the apple shows that imperfection( in a way ) was already there.God could have wanted to see if man can exist whitout the knowledge of good and evil.
Suppose I told you not to stand in the middle of a busy street so you don't get run over, but I phrased it as, 'Neef norp de glorp flagnel.' You would have no idea what I meant. You go and stand in the middle of the street, get run over, and as punishment for doing what I told you not to do but couldn't understand I chop off both your legs.
This is precisely the case with the Eden myth - God punished Adam for a wrong act, but Adam couldn't conceive of the concept of wrongness until he committed the act for which he was exiled.
God didn't forbid Adam to take the apple because he didn't need it, he simply forbade him, with no explanation.
God (according to the manual) knows everything. The notion that God wanted to 'see if man could exist without the knowledge of good and evil' is ludicrous on the face of it. God knew Adam was going to disobey from the moment he was created. This is akin to building a house, knowing all the while that you're going to deliberately burn it to the ground.
God myths (the one here is no exception) are nothing more than the attempts of primitive peoples to explain why everything sucks, no more or less to be believed than the folk tales of any other culture.
Boru
(October 15, 2017 at 11:27 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 11:23 am)mh.brewer Wrote: If god is omniscient, then free will is an illusion.
I don't see why ?
Because this: Omniscient means 'knows everything'. In the case of God's relationship to the universe, it means that God knows everything that is ever going to happen. What is more, God has always had this knowledge. The inevitable consequences is that there is nothing I can do that God hasn't foreseen, no choice I can make that God hasn't always known about.
Where then is free will? If I'm trying to decide which shoe to put on first, or which hand to stir my coffee with, these 'decisions' are part and parcel of what God knows. The only way I can have free will is to act in a way that God hasn't foreseen - in other words, to have the ability to do something that God didn't know was going to happen. If I can do that, then God can't be omniscient.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Christian genesis
October 15, 2017 at 11:40 am
(October 15, 2017 at 9:57 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: (October 15, 2017 at 9:47 am)chimp3 Wrote: I am an atheist. No gods exist. Everything in the bible was written by humans. I never ask "What did god mean by this story?" I always ask "What purpose did this story serve the writers?' I also wonder why this ancient drivel is so real to modern humans.
Hmm, whitout the biblical context , that is wise to stay by the side of the teacher ,although you don t really need him , things will go a lot faster with him around.
Faster and easier, kind of like the advantage you enjoy by subscribing to Christ dying for your sins. So much more convenient. I'd say for the lazy-inclined, getting to be a sheep in the care of a shepherd or an infant at his God's teat is a real godsend.
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