Did Jesus exist?

[Anomalocaris]

However, Rayaan, that was not the point. the point was ( and remains ) that there is no contemporary evidence from the first 1/3 of the 6th century for anyone named mohammad. In much the same way as there is no evidence for any jesus in the first 1/3 of the first century. Nor is there any evidence for a "moses" in the Late Bronze Age...or before or after.

I already posted some of the evidences in my comments above. All those are historical facts.

Google the name Muhammad and you'll find plenty of information about him. Didn't you say that Google is your God? If so, then you should trust what it tells you.

Since google is my god, I can not possibly believe anyone who claim there is no god besides one who is not google. Sorry.

[Minimalist]

Google the name Muhammad and you'll find plenty of information about him.

Rayaan, I sense a bit of desperation building in you. I did not ask for "information" about mohammad. There is plenty of information about him and jesus and moses and fucking santa claus because Google does not discriminate. Google ( PBUH ) treats all fairy tales as equal.

I asked for "contemporary sources" which mention mohammad. So far, you have failed to present any.

This is not your fault. There are none.

[annatar]

Well Min, Muhammed is more likely to be real. Its becouse he is an important historical character in arab history too. he unified the arab tribes and ruled arabia for a long time. And unlike jesus there are some historic records about him... I am not sure what do you mean by "contemporary resources" but as far as I know he is real as any other historical character.. Who would create someone like muhammad anyway?? He is really a jerk.. You can find so many shameful tale about him if you dig out a little..(that is despite the efforts of his followers) I can even convince you only by using quran Of course you can't be sure 100 percent that he is real. But its not like jesus..

[DeistPaladin]

Well Min, Muhammed is more likely to be real. Its becouse he is an important historical character in arab history too. he unified the arab tribes and ruled arabia for a long time. And unlike jesus there are some historic records about him... I am not sure what do you mean by "contemporary resources" but as far as I know he is real as any other historical character.. Who would create someone like muhammad anyway?? He is really a jerk.. You can find so many shameful tale about him if you dig out a little..(that is despite the efforts of his followers) I can even convince you only by using quran Of course you can't be sure 100 percent that he is real. But its not like jesus..

I'm certainly more inclined to believe in a historical Muhammad than a historical Jesus because of the believability factor. A conquering warlord who started a religion and founded an empire is far more believable than a wandering godman who sat around for 30 years doing nothing and then suddenly went about performing miracles that no one noticed. This is not to say I believe he existed but I've put a lot less research into what the "real story" might have been since, at face value, it seems plausible.

[Minimalist]

And unlike jesus there are some historic records about him

I am still waiting to see them.

Xtians claim there are historical records about their godboy, too.


There aren't.


What there is - and the same is true of islam - is a lot of after-the-fact shit written about them by believers which automatically casts doubt on those writings.

A contemporary source would be a source written while the subject was allegedly alive and commenting on him.

---

I'm certainly more inclined to believe in a historical Muhammad than a historical Jesus because of the believability factor. A conquering warlord who started a religion and founded an empire is far more believable than a wandering godman who sat around for 30 years doing nothing

Actually, D-P, I have to disagree with you there. Jesus, in your vision, was a no-account schlub who would not have attracted any attention. But a "conquering warlord" ( with or without a new religion ) would have been of significant interest to the other powers in the area, notably the Byzantines and the Sassanids ( Persians). There were trade routes all through the area. There is simply no way in hell that they could have helped hearing about such developments. And unlike jesus the phony miracle worker a rampaging Arab army would have been seen as important.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassanid_Empire





Besides, you'd think someone would notice the moon splitting in two!

[annatar]

well let me explain why Muhammed has to be real.
answers are in quran. I'm not kidding..
quran has lots of verse just to meet muhammeds own needs.
if he were a fictional character and not real why would his author put these verses in quran?

O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful
Surat Al-'Aĥzāb:50

just for his needs at the time of hijra...
here is another one

O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.
Azhab 53.(33.53)

Muhammed used quran for almost any of his needs..

If you two [wives] repent to Allah , [it is best], for your hearts have deviated. But if you cooperate against him - then indeed Allah is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are [his] assistants.
Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah ], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.
(66:4-5)

Just to control his wifes...
I suppouse I just proved that muhammed exists.. though I dont think muslims will be pleased

Other than quran we have detailed informations about the wars between muslims and pagans, battle of the trench is being one of them;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Trench
After this battle Muhammed punished a jewish tribe, Banu Qurayza for desertion;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza
Muhammad also have lots of relatives attached to Arab history after his death..

[Minimalist]

Um.....

Jesus lives in the bible.


Mohammad lives in the Quran.


and Luke Skywalker lives in Star Wars.


I hope you didn't do a lot of work on that, Bro, because it is terribly unconvincing to trot out the so-called holy book and say "Ta-Da!!!" The xtians try it all the time and I can't let you get away with it either. I have to tell you that they have just as much silly shit in their book as you have in yours. Except for the splitting the moon thingy. That's unique.

[gmjackson]

If Jesus did exist, it is odd that he wrote no books for the Bible.

[annatar]

Um.....

Jesus lives in the bible.


Mohammad lives in the Quran.


and Luke Skywalker lives in Star Wars.


I hope you didn't do a lot of work on that, Bro, because it is terribly unconvincing to trot out the so-called holy book and say "Ta-Da!!!" The xtians try it all the time and I can't let you get away with it either. I have to tell you that they have just as much silly shit in their book as you have in yours. Except for the splitting the moon thingy. That's unique.

Really? I thouth it was pretty convincing. I mean, c'mon, who could really put those verses in a holy book unless he would benefit from them?
Lol it was no trouble, those verses known by nearly every ex muslim atheist Did you bother to read them?
And there are a lot more just like that..
because it is terribly unconvincing to trot out the so-called holy book and say "Ta-Da!!!
You are missing the point, Quran is more like Muhammad's diary (or pesonal list of his wishes) than a holy book..

There are some early historians too, one of them lived at muhammad's time Urwah ibn Zubayr
As I said you can't be 100 percent sure but you cant be sure of anything when it comes to history.. Especially for some arabic tribe leader. I never said he is definitely real.. I said he is likely to be real..

[Skipper]

You are missing the point, Quran is more like Muhammad's diary (or pesonal list of his wishes) than a holy book..

Dear diary,

helped start a religion this week that will hold back human development and cause untold suffering to millions of people world wide for thousands of years to come, also I think Chad likes me, might ask him to the prom...he's so dreamy!!!

Muhammad.