Did Jesus exist?

[solja247]

Putting aside the burden of proof being on the one who would say Jesus existed, how did you feel about my Bible references that suggest he didn't?

You mean this one?

Jesus was one of many doom criers and Jewish faction leaders who apparently was so insignificant that no one noticed him in his time. He waited about 30 years before doing anything and then went about performing miracles that no one paid any attention to. He founded a ministry that "spread like wildfire" into the surrounding provinces, and yet failed to get a mention by theologians and philosophers of the time (including Philo). He wrote nothing of his own teachings and nothing was written about him for at least 40 years. Then, generations later, he became the towering icon of numerous splinter factions, some of who believed he never existed in the flesh (see 1John 4:1-3 and 2John 1:7).

Interesting. He was a carpenter for the 30 years He was not doing anything. Well we dont have complete historical records of all the theologians and philosophers of His time, perhaps He did get a mention, but that is speculation.
I wouldnt say generations later, I would say several weeks later, not decades. Remember, oral tradition was important back then.
Paul has to remind the Corinthains that Jesus rose from the dead! So although it is interesting that early Christians had a hard time believing Jesus did not exist in the flesh, its not surprising. We have to remember there was a lot of Mysticism back then, so I dont think that is strong evidence to say that Jesus did not exist.

[DeistPaladin]

Paul has to remind the Corinthains that Jesus rose from the dead! So although it is interesting that early Christians had a hard time believing Jesus did not exist in the flesh, its not surprising. We have to remember there was a lot of Mysticism back then, so I dont think that is strong evidence to say that Jesus did not exist.

Actually, I go into detail on my post on page 4 of this thread. Scroll down to the 3rd to last post and you'll see it.

Essentially, there were a wild variety of early Christians, some of whom did not believe Jesus was ever a flesh-and-blood person, either before or after the alleged resurrection.

As for Paul, he flatly denies that Jesus had lived within his lifetime. See 1Cor 15:8.

1 Cor 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

The only sources we have for Jesus are in the Bible, and as you can see, this account is riddled with problems.

[Minimalist]

And I asked for 'credible' sources that academically reafirm your ideas and opinions. So far, you have failed to present any.

Anything I give you you will simply ignore because you want to read it in a fucking encyclopedia.

Why not read The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty?


Or, if entire books are too much for you, here's a web site.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/r...ction.html

[solja247]

As for Paul, he flatly denies that Jesus had lived within his lifetime. See 1Cor 15:8.

You know your Bible well but you have to be careful of a few things:
1. Not looking at the actual language (which in this case is Greek)
2. Not understanding the context
3. Proof texting

As of one born out of due time - The apostle considers himself as coming after the time in which Jesus Christ personally conversed with his disciples; and that, therefore, to see him at all, he must see him in this extraordinary way. Some have entered into a very disgusting detail on the figure used here by the apostle. The words, ὡσπερει τῳ εκτρωματι, signify not merely one born out of due time, but one born before his time; and consequently, not bidding fair for vigor, usefulness, or long life. But it is likely that the apostle had a different meaning; and that he refers to the original institution of the twelve apostles, in the rank of whom he never stood, being appointed not to fill up a place among the twelve, but as an extra and additional apostle. Rosenmuller says that those who were beyond the number of twelve senators were termed abortivi, abortives; and refers to Suetonius in Octavio, cap. 35. I have examined the place, but find no such epithet. According to Suetonius, in that place, they were called orcini - persons who had assumed the senatorial dignity after the death of Julius Caesar, pretending that they had derived that honor from him.

http://biblecommenter.com/1_corinthians/15-8.htm

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Anything I give you you will simply ignore because you want to read it in a fucking encyclopedia.

Why not read The Jesus Puzzle by Earl Doherty?


Or, if entire books are too much for you, here's a web site.

I will read that book, if you read a 'credible' book written by fifty scienctists (who mostly have PhDs) why they reject evolution.
http://www.amazon.com/Six-Days-Scientist...0890513414