List of reasons to believe God exists?

[henryp]

It's not a wish list, personally this world itself is very strange and leads to belief.

For example; having consciousness. Then having planets with orbits, then having the laws of nature. It is too fishy that it indicates that there must be a designer behind it all.

The wish list, I just meant is the perks that become available after you decide there is a God/Creator.  So if I agreed, 'it really is too fishy, there must be a designer.'  There's no way to conclude from that that humans have souls and will live in heaven for eternity.  You have to want that to be the conclusion, and then figure out a way to get there from a designer, in my opinion.

Is there more to the fishiness aspect?  I get that.  It seems really improbable.  But lots of things/events seem really improbable and we not only witness them occur, but we know how and when and why they occur.  What makes you not only suspicious but confident the improbability of some things is so high that a designer is required.  Is there a number you have in mind?  Like 1 in a Billion means it's probably a designer?  

The trick with big numbers, is that the improbable doesn't stay improbable.  We have our lottery over here with odds of a ticket winning at 1 in 292 million.  Which seems improbable.  It's no surprise that the winner will thank God when they win.  But most of the time somebody will win because  millions of people buy millions of tickets making a lot of opportunities for the 1 in 292 million to happen.  So many, that the odds of at least one person winning is probably like 1 in 3.  I don't think we need a God to explain 1 in 3.

If you apply the same thinking to consciousness.  That seems like a long shot.  A lot of shit has to go right to result in consciousness.  How much?  I don't know.  I can't imagine you do either.  We just know it's a big number.  But 13.8 Billion years and an entire universe is a lot of tickets.  So when you say it seems fishy, are you sure it is?  It could be 1 in 2.  It might be 99 out of 100.  You could be looking at an absolute statistical certainty and be thinking 'it seems fishy'.

Something  might be unlikely is not the strongest case to base a belief in God on. (edit: is there anything else? Like if you were trying to convince me, I can't imagine you'd just say "seems unlikely, you should believe in a designer.")

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I'd also say to theists that reply, if you want to ignore the dipshit atheists that always flood these types threads, and just talk with me (and of course the other non dipshit atheists), that'd be cool and appreciated. I'm sincerely interested in what you have to say. But it seems like it's always a race to get a conversation going before the same boring people show up and say the same boring shit over and over and over.

[Whateverist]

It's mostly the alleged benefits package. Though anyone who buys that may be interested in a certain bridge spanning the S.F. bay which I can sell for a very attractive price.

[Sal]

I don't get the OP. Are you alluding to unfalsifiable statements about god-belief? There are plenty of those around.

[brewer]

It's not a wish list, personally this world itself is very strange and leads to belief.

For example; having consciousness. Then having planets with orbits, then having the laws of nature. It is too fishy that it indicates that there must be a designer behind it all.

Planets have orbits, therefore god?


When illiterate Muhammed created the Koran the concept of other planets did not exist! Why? The human sourced gods never knew more than their human creators know.

The only reason you, Atlas, can attribute planetary orbits to a god is because humans have struggled to gain knowledge beyond what mullahs, priests, rabbis, and yogis have imparted. Therefore, we now know there are other planets and they have orbits!

Knowledge is hard won and accumulates. Nothing taught in the 7th century about the physical universe has any validity! It is simply easier for simplistic peoples to understand.

You may be humor or sarcasm impaired. That's about as funny as Atlas gets.

[Mystic]

We don't just want there to be morality, accountability and intrinsic value, we know these things exist.  If you come to the table denying all these things because they are not physical, well first prove five senses measures reality, I am 100% sure you cannot. Because even if material things exist without spiritual nature, it would not be defined by five senses and the way they exist would be beyond it. It's not touching that defines essence, neither vision, etc, something else defines it.

But we see ourselves exist, and that is our best bet of what reality is, and it's spiritual. We also have a perpetual identity and it's not simply our want of that to be the case, but is the case that it is something we perceive to be.

[The Grand Nudger]

We don't just want there to be morality, accountability and intrinsic value, we know these things exist.

Sure, we do.  What does any of that have to do with a god, though?

I have a suspicion that you'd find more agreement on these issues between yourself and atheists if the religious hadn't mounted centuries of "without god, there would be no x" arguments. At some point, people just throw their hands in the air and say "fuck it, if you say so..if whatever it is you're talking about requires a god then those things don't exist".

#irony

[Whateverist]

Watching MK disintegrate into a hot mess is a pretty good argument for anti-theism. May have to revoke his adult license.

[Brian37]

Theists have "reasons" to believe that god exists, just no good reasons to believe such.

No they do not. Most humans get sold the religions of their parents before they can critically think.

[Mystic]

We don't just want there to be morality, accountability and intrinsic value, we know these things exist.

Sure, we do.  What does any of that have to do with a god, though?

That has been explained many times.

[Brian37]

We don't just want there to be morality, accountability and intrinsic value, we know these things exist.  If you come to the table denying all these things because they are not physical, well first prove five senses measures reality, I am 100% sure you cannot. Because even if material things exist without spiritual nature, it would not be defined by five senses and the way they exist would be beyond it. It's not touching that defines essence, neither vision, etc, something else defines it.

But we see ourselves exist, and that is our best bet of what reality is, and it's spiritual. We also have a perpetual identity and it's not simply our want of that to be the case, but is the case that it is something we perceive to be.

Um no, our behaviors are very physical and measurable. You are mistaking abstract language as being the excuse to chalk it up to a sky hero.

Our senses in sight, speech, touch, hearing, and even our emotions are activities that stem from our genes, our input growing up, and our biological and neurological, electro-chemical activity in our brains. Our physical brains and our behaviors as a species are most certainly observable and can be measured.

Being physical isn't claiming humans should behave like emotionless robots. It merely means if we want to understand human behavior, human biology, psychology, and neurology we don't need old books of mythology to explain that.

I loved my mom, I love my cat, I love sushi. The word "love" in those cases is an abstract word. But that abstract word is still a description of real physical events.

If your claimed god, or any were required for me to exist, then I wouldn't. The fact that I do, negates the claim that any God is required to exist. But, just like any other religion, the narcissism that any outsider that does not share that label cant understand or doesn't have the same emotions because they don't buy that label, is utter garbage. 

Our species existed long before any written language or written religion. Cats and dogs have emotions too, they can display love, and cruelty too. There is no magic to life and our morality isn't being handed to us from above.