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Favorite Philosophers?
#21
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
Oh yes definitely Bertrand Russell. I mustn't forget Bertie!

Oh and Socrates and Epicurus.

Also Karl Popper. Especially for his endorsement of negative utilitarianism.

And I guess one specific idea by Edmund Husserl had a bigger impact on my life than any other philosopher. He is the founder of phenomenology. And understanding phenomenology along with Kant's seperation of the phenomena and noumena, has influenced me more than anything else. By itself that idea allowed me to 100% avoid the paradox of hedonism forever.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_hedonism)

Which was the main source of my unhappiness, frustration, boredom, rumination, O.C.D. and excessive introspection for many years.

I also find desire utilitarianism/desirism that was founded by Alonzo Fyfe very interesting. Here's a FAQ about desirism:

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=2982

To sum it all up in my very standardized Hammy-like long-winded way: Overall my philosophy in general combines the ideas behind phenomenology founded by Husserl, and Kant's separation between the noumenal and phenomenal world, which is reminicent of Plato, but then I combine it with Aristotle's understanding that it's still all really one world really, just conceptualized in two different ways, although one half of it is not detectable by the senses, that's the point, and I combine that with Arthur Schopenhauer's agreement that Kant is basically right about most things but here are a few of his mistakes, and that it's ultimately one interconnected undifferentiated world, and nonexistence is impossible since nonexistence isn't a thing, it's simply that some things aren't existent there is no thing called nothing, and then I combine that with Schopenhauer's emphasis on compassion and an absence of free will, and that we're all connected, but in a non silly way, I also agree with Schopenhauer that music is the highest of all the arts because it is the most abstract and therefore the most original and purely emotional as opposed to representational, it comes more from within, how we feel, rather than from copying the world or writing about or making movies out of stuff that has already happened, etc, it also has a tempo that can sync up with your heart rate so that makes music emotional too. I also agree with Kant that lying is mostly just plain wrong, although I disagree 100% that it's wrong in spite of the consequences, I think it's wrong because of the consequences both to ourselves and others, and even white lies often do more harm in the long run than we like to admit. I think desires are relevant to ethics but suffering is more relevant, and I agree with Nietzsche over Schopenhauer when it comes to the fact that living life to the full is more important than turning away from the world. And I agree with Taurek that suffering cannot be aggregated and the numbers in and of themselves shouldn't count. I'm also a presentist. I guess I'm a phenomenological eternalist but the important thing is I acknowledge the noumena and say that real reality is changeless, all one connected thing made of many smaller parts, there is no true 100% empty space (if it's teeming with quantum activity . . . it's not empty space or "nothing") . . . so I am a noumenological presentist. And I also think that present experiences, memories and moments cannot be aggregated in one individual temporally any more than between separate individuals. Because every experience is like a separate individual really. We just tie that all together with our memories, our memories are what make us us, but we still only experience one experience or memory at a time. The baseline is important but acuteness is more important than chronicness. And we are often wrong about our own experiences and memories.

I also disagree that a genuine experience groundhog day, living the same day over and over, could ever be boring. Because the movie isn't a true example of groundhog day. As every day is slightly different because the protagonis remembers experiencing the day before, and he starts to get sick of it only because he remembers it. If he lived the same day over and over but had his memory wiped at the end of each day so it was like experiencing it for the first time every time... then even if he did that for all eternity that would be experientially identical to only living the day once. So things aren't boring because we do them over and over, things are boring because we remember already having done them over and over. And this is why identical experiences cannot be aggregated and why chronicness doesn't matter but acuteness does. Intensity and moments matter more than time and space.

Anyway that's that for now lol.
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#22
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
(December 6, 2017 at 6:26 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: The Dude, of course.

[Image: nkjdachvtkv8hcv5kz20.jpg]

I love Dudeism. You'd think it's just a joke religion but Big Lebowski has a lot of lines that parallel Taoist philosophy.
[Image: nL4L1haz_Qo04rZMFtdpyd1OZgZf9NSnR9-7hAWT...dc2a24480e]
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#23
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
I no particular order: Aquinas (big surprise there!), Sartre, Plotinus, David Bentley Hart (mostly for aesthetics) - although I admire others for their lesser contributions such as Kierkegaard (ethics), Schopenhauer (also aesthetics), & Nagel (mind). Despite my frequent posts on metaphysics and ethics, some of you may be surprised that I am most interested in aesthetics.
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#24
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
Oh dear! Aquinas is an embarrassment to philosophy!
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#25
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
(December 6, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I might choose Aristotle over Plato and his mouthpiece Socrates, since he contributed so much to the foundations of science.  Plato/Socrates always struck me as being as much rhetoricians (a dirty word as I use it) as philosophers, though that might just be the fault of the manner of Plato's exposition.  

Y'know, I've found that you're either an Aristotle guy or a Plato guy. Sure, there are some Greco-philes out there who enjoy both, but usually people tend to like one over the other. I'm a Plato guy.

To me, Socrates is more than just Plato's mouthpiece. He's the provisioner of the fundamental dialectic which we still use today in philosophy. You can toss out a lot of stuff that Plato and Aristotle said because it is ... well, wrong. But Socrates pointed out that we should always delve deeper into our understanding, and through the process we learn more and more about our own perspective.

I disagree that Plato and Socrates were rhetoricians. In fact, they were opposed to the sophists who taught people how to be convincing speakers and treated truth as something relative. To convince others that something was true was an empty pursuit. Plato thought that there was one capital T Truth, and thought that philosophers ought to be committed to discovering that instead of convincing others to agree with persuasive argument. Now Aristotle had some pretty neat ideas, and he took a more hands-on and naturalistic approach to philosophy. I've found that he is far more popular than his teacher, Plato. I admit, he does make more sense than Plato sometimes.

(December 6, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Someone who isn't really a serious academic philosopher but made a big impression on me before I studied it in college, was Alan Watts.  If you liked Thoreau and James you might also like Watts, though Watts' woo as a percentage of his writing was much higher.

I like Watts. I haven't read a whole lot of him, but I rather like what I have read. I saw a few videos of him speaking on youtube. Good stuff. As for "woo," I will tolerate it from someone, but it's not something I ever personally dig. James might fit the bill for being woo woo, but I think it's a stretch. I don't get that from Thoreau at all. He refers to nature as the divine object, but this isn't in relation to some deity or cosmic force; it is divine all by itself. He's not talking about spirits, ectoplasm, or anything spooky like that. He's talking about the actual rocks and actual trees, earth, and rivers. These things filled him with spiritual fervor, but not because they were related to anything supernatural. "Natural" was good enough for Thoreau.

(December 6, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I might like to include Hume and I always felt like I should have read Wittgenstein, but too late.  All I read now is novels and honestly, I've probably gotten just as much out of it.  Though if I hadn't of studied philosophy I might never have gotten my head out of the clouds.
I like Hume a lot, but I've only read a few essays of his. Never read a word of Wittgenstein, but he's come up in conversations/lectures. He sounds quite interesting.

(December 7, 2017 at 12:40 am)inimalist Wrote: Beat this phony jesus cat by 5 centuries!

Confucius beat him by five centuries as well:

"never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself"

(December 7, 2017 at 11:58 am)Hammy Wrote: Oh and Socrates and Epicurus.

Also Karl Popper. Especially for his endorsement of negative utilitarianism.

I'm getting into Popper. I plan on reading his work in political philosophy. "Enemies of the Open Society" or something like that. Negative utilitarianism sounds really cool too. I hadn't heard of it before your post, but I googled it, and it makes a lot of sense. Why do you like the theory? Does it stand up to arguments that plain old utilitarianism can't?

(December 7, 2017 at 11:58 am)Hammy Wrote: And I guess one specific idea by Edmund Husserl had a bigger impact on my life than any other philosopher. He is the founder of phenomenology. And understanding phenomenology along with Kant's seperation of the phenomena and noumena, has influenced me more than anything else. By itself that idea allowed me to 100% avoid the paradox of hedonism forever.

Wow. You know your metaphysics, dude. I am somewhat familiar with Kant's phenomena/noumena (I'd have to refresh my memory) and I'm fascinated how it might relate to hedonism or utilitarianism. Kant's ethics are not consequentialist, that much I know. I'd be interested to hear how his metaphysics relates to a brand of ethics he rejects. (I'll click on the link you left at some point.) I've read a good bit of Kant (not as much as you, obviously). But I haven't read any Husserl at all. Anything you can recommend which is a decent introduction to his thought?
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#26
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
(December 8, 2017 at 7:19 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(December 6, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I might choose Aristotle over Plato and his mouthpiece Socrates, since he contributed so much to the foundations of science.  Plato/Socrates always struck me as being as much rhetoricians (a dirty word as I use it) as philosophers, though that might just be the fault of the manner of Plato's exposition.  

Y'know, I've found that you're either an Aristotle guy or a Plato guy. Sure, there are some Greco-philes out there who enjoy both, but usually people tend to like one over the other. I'm a Plato guy.

To me, Socrates is more than just Plato's mouthpiece. He's the provisioner of the fundamental dialectic which we still use today in philosophy. You can toss out a lot of stuff that Plato and Aristotle said because it is ... well, wrong. But Socrates pointed out that we should always delve deeper into our understanding, and through the process we learn more and more about our own perspective.

I disagree that Plato and Socrates were rhetoricians. In fact, they were opposed to the sophists who taught people how to be convincing speakers and treated truth as something relative. To convince others that something was true was an empty pursuit. Plato thought that there was one capital T Truth, and thought that philosophers ought to be committed to discovering that instead of convincing others to agree with persuasive argument. Now Aristotle had some pretty neat ideas, and he took a more hands-on and naturalistic approach to philosophy. I've found that he is far more popular than his teacher, Plato. I admit, he does make more sense than Plato sometimes.


In terms of readability, I'm a Plato guy too.  But I think of Socrates as Plato's alter ego, the badass he'd like to be if he didn't have aspirations.  But lets face it, Plato's pure forms is just ass backwards.  Understandable though that he should be overawed by the labyrinths of language at the dawn of reason.  Meanwhile stodgy old Aristotle is just grinding through the actual and laying the foundation for science.  While it isn't as inspiring it is pretty admirable in its own way.


(December 8, 2017 at 7:19 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(December 6, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Someone who isn't really a serious academic philosopher but made a big impression on me before I studied it in college, was Alan Watts.  If you liked Thoreau and James you might also like Watts, though Watts' woo as a percentage of his writing was much higher.

I like Watts. I haven't read a whole lot of him, but I rather like what I have read. I saw a few videos of him speaking on youtube. Good stuff. As for "woo," I will tolerate it from someone, but it's not something I ever personally dig. James might fit the bill for being woo woo, but I think it's a stretch. I don't get that from Thoreau at all. He refers to nature as the divine object, but this isn't in relation to some deity or cosmic force; it is divine all by itself. He's not talking about spirits, ectoplasm, or anything spooky like that. He's talking about the actual rocks and actual trees, earth, and rivers. These things filled him with spiritual fervor, but not because they were related to anything supernatural. "Natural" was good enough for Thoreau.

My favorite thing by Alan Watts is "The Wisdom of Insecurity".  Funny I started reading some Watts when I was actively shopping for woo, but that book helped me lose that interest.  Now I look to nature and literature for my transcendent moments and don't crave the concentrated version they try to distill in the spiritual book section.  


(December 8, 2017 at 7:19 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(December 6, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I might like to include Hume and I always felt like I should have read Wittgenstein, but too late.  All I read now is novels and honestly, I've probably gotten just as much out of it.  Though if I hadn't of studied philosophy I might never have gotten my head out of the clouds.
I like Hume a lot, but I've only read a few essays of his. Never read a word of Wittgenstein, but he's come up in conversations/lectures. He sounds quite interesting.

I remember reading the early Wittgenstein's "Tractatus" in which he probably thought he had unpacked all the good bits of consciousness as a systematic hierarchy of facts.  So weird.  Then after a period away from philosophy I hear his later works are all about helping others find their way out of their fascination with the hall of mirrors which is language.

I haven't read much Hume either but what I did read was such fresh air after sloughing through Kant.  Funny how when reading Kant my sentences started growing to paragraph length.  *shudders*
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#27
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
Socrates was better than Plato.

Socrates had some cooky ideas but at least he did a lot of relentless questioning. And he was very humble too, he only knew that he knew nothing, etc.

I prefer a lot of the pre-socratics to either of them too.

And yes, Aritstole was hugely influentical and right about a lot of things. Although he was also wrong about a lot of things (and he thought flies had four legs!) . . . and philosophers after him improved upon him.
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#28
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
(December 8, 2017 at 8:21 am)Hammy Wrote: And yes, Aritstole was hugely influentical and right about a lot of things. Although he was also wrong about a lot of things (and he thought flies had four legs!) . . . and philosophers after him improved upon him.

Some people have defended Aristotle on this. You have to admit, it is unlikely that Aristotle could not count to six. I've read the offending passage with some apologetics that said Aristotle might have taken the flies front two legs to be "arms" (We all have noticed how flies rub their two front legs together like hands.)
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#29
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
Oh interesting point.

He's still wrong about some stuff though Tongue

But he is fucking amazing and the modernist of modern science and logic is founded upon his principles.

(December 6, 2017 at 6:21 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: (Spinoza fights with James for the number 5 slot.)

Spinoza is great!

I like the Jamesian theory of emotion but other than that... meh.
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#30
RE: Favorite Philosophers?
(December 8, 2017 at 9:09 am)Hammy Wrote: Oh interesting point.

He's still wrong about some stuff though Tongue

But he is fucking amazing and the modernist of modern science and logic is founded upon his principles.

(December 6, 2017 at 6:21 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: (Spinoza fights with James for the number 5 slot.)

Spinoza is great!

I like the Jamesian theory of emotion but other than that... meh.


Between Spinoza and Descartes, give me Spinoza.  Descartes' questioning doesn't seem sincere, more of a set up for an answer he's eager to peddle.
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