Why does science always upstage God?

[arewethereyet]

Reformed is a denomination, like Baptist or Presbyterian.

And why is it called such?

[The Grand Nudger]

Meaning God has clearly shown you at least two things about himself: his eternal power and divine nature.

God may have exposed himself to you, at some point.  That sounds on brand.  Some of us have simply never had the pleasure.

Personally, wouldn't matter to me. Seeing gods ass wouldn't make me a christian.

[ayost]

From the Christian reformers, like Martin Luther and John Calvin. It's just a way to label your beliefs. In the case of Reformed theology we are saying our Theology closely matches theirs.

[Fireball]

Meaning God has clearly shown you at least two things about himself: his eternal power and divine nature.

God may have exposed himself to you, at some point.  That sounds on brand.  Some of us have simply never had the pleasure.

Personally, wouldn't matter to me.  Seeing gods ass wouldn't make me a christian.

It's that raincoat cloaking device. He only exposes himself to certain people.

[The Grand Nudger]

Would you discard your religion if Zues descended from mount olympus and set up shop in your living room? I think there's an interesting misconception at the heart of beliefs such as the one espoused.

[ayost]

Meaning God has clearly shown you at least two things about himself: his eternal power and divine nature.

God may have exposed himself to you, at some point.  That sounds on brand.  Some of us have simply never had the pleasure.

Personally, wouldn't matter to me.  Seeing gods ass wouldn't make me a christian.

Well, what Romans is saying is that if God revealed it to you, then the message got through. You are suppressing your knowledge of God. Which I think you second sentence demonstrates pretty clearly.

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Would you discard your religion if Zues descended from mount olympus and set up shop in your living room?  I think there's an interesting misconception at the heart of beliefs such as the one espoused.

I mean, that would clearly challenge my beliefs, I guess. I'm not sure how that matters here, though.

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God may have exposed himself to you, at some point.  That sounds on brand.  Some of us have simply never had the pleasure.

Personally, wouldn't matter to me.  Seeing gods ass wouldn't make me a christian.

It's that raincoat cloaking device. He only exposes himself to certain people.

It's not cloaked, it's clear. You're suppressing and rejecting the knowledge.

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Reformed is a denomination, like Baptist or Presbyterian.

And why is it called such?

From the Christian reformers, like Martin Luther and John Calvin. It's just a way to label your beliefs. In the case of Reformed theology we are saying our Theology closely matches theirs.

[The Grand Nudger]

God may have exposed himself to you, at some point.  That sounds on brand.  Some of us have simply never had the pleasure.

Personally, wouldn't matter to me.  Seeing gods ass wouldn't make me a christian.

Well, what Romans is saying is that if God revealed it to you, then the message got through. You are suppressing your knowledge of God. Which I think you second sentence demonstrates pretty clearly.

Well, you may be reading it wrong because of your presuppositions about the world, gods, and other people, don't you think?  Not magic book, mind you, it says silly things like that all the time.  My comment.  

I can't see the utility in suppressing something that doesn't matter to me - the existence of a god is inconsequential to my opinion of their religions.

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Would you discard your religion if Zues descended from mount olympus and set up shop in your living room?  I think there's an interesting misconception at the heart of beliefs such as the one espoused.

I mean, that would clearly challenge my beliefs, I guess. I'm not sure how that matters here, though.

In what way?  You don't assume that the criticisms you offered for atheists wouldn't also apply to you in that event? That you might deny the god in your living room? Suppress clear evidence?

In fact, I posit that you have - and that your comments are clear evidence that you are suppressing the truth of zues in your living room. Or maybe you just never met the guy. 50/50?

[ayost]

Also, it's comical that he believes a god is necessary for those actions.

That is another good point.  It certainly is not necessary.  I would say that it requires conscious choice and that must be grounded in some sort of philosophy.  It doesn't just happen by chance because humans are inherently selfish.  But there's ample evidence to demonstrate that adherence to a religious philosophy isn't necessary, although it can certainly be done through a religious philosophy.  Just happens that the message so easily gets lost and morphs into self-righteousness.

So the idea that "Christians don't live this way" so Christianity is untrue or unnecessary or whatever the conclusion is doesn't make sense.

1. "Christians" is a category, a group, so broad that it lacks meaning. It's like saying "white people". That's too broad of a category.
2. Does the OP know all Christians? Does he know the percentage of good to bad Christians?
3. Why choose to label Christians by the bad ones. I don't say "you know all of those murdering atheists" because Stalin was an atheist.
4. If you learned about and understood Christianity you would know the answer to this question. But you haven't so you don't.

But I think the more interesting idea is morality comes from conscious choice and should be grounded in philosophy. Can we talk about that?

[Brian37]

(in no particular order)
Theists tell me, why is it that everything that God has provided, created and bestowed upon us, co-incidentally always seems to have
an alternate natural, more feasible explanation?

Why cannot science objectively find just one example out of trillions, where we can say, yeah, that thing right there, it shouldn't happen like that but it does, repeatedly.
That thing goes against what is logical or possible in our universe.
Example: People go back to Fatima, pray en masse for a sundance and on queue the Sun dances! For all the world to see?

Maybe it is the work of a God? They prayed to a God and a God responded... Makes logical sense.

But if God is going to act exactly like he doesn't exist in our universe, theists, why on earth do you even assume that he does?
What compels you to go against the grain of logic and common sense and dedicate your life to a particular myth from millions of other man made myths?

We just need one tiny example for God to show us something, but even that is asking too much for a non existent God.
Funny how everything in the world seems to make more sense when you take any extra unnecessary baggage out of the picture. (Occams)

Yeah, the world is a cruel place for the most part, but how is believing in something not real going to help anything or anyone.
Have we really reduced our species to relying on false hope to get by? We must have: 80% of the world does it.

(Even at the quantum level, weird shit happens, that isn't God! Why would the creator of the universe need to hide inside of atoms while we're all outside?
That's how our universe has been for 14 billion years, we're just discovering it now (last 100 years -through knowledge and technology.)

Denial. 

It literally amounts to human narcissism and tribalism and fear of being wrong.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is there any such thing as a good christian? I don't think that a group of people who posit their own redemption through the brutal slaughter of another can be said to be good - at least not on the grounds of that shared belief. They're probably very fine people, otherwise, I'm sure. This is another truth that you're supressing in your life, despite having been presented with clear evidence to that effect by zues in your living room.

But I think the more interesting idea is morality comes from conscious choice and should be grounded in philosophy. Can we talk about that?

Sure. Always good stuff.