Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[henryp]

Maybe things that are 'creepy as hell' should be considered unacceptable?

[The Grand Nudger]

I was under the impression that she had not accused him of rape, and that there were no charges?  I can see why people would read that story and come away thinking that Ansari is a predatory creep.  That seems like a mild observation compared to the more serious allegation that what does not sound like a rape, was, in fact..a rape.

[Shell B]

Maybe things that are 'creepy as hell' should be considered unacceptable?

They are, just not on the same level as assault. They're unacceptable in the same way that a lot of other relationship-related things are unacceptable. You walk away with an icky feeling and then move on with your life, never going back. It's the same way we express anything is unacceptable in a relationship. People have to define that for themselves, though. Another hyper-sexual woman might have loved that shit and come back for more.

I once had a guy kiss me super forcefully out of nowhere. I hated the guy. He had no cues that this was okay. I was super clear that it wasn't and never put myself in a situation where I was alone with him (even for five minutes on a porch at a friend's party, as this was). He didn't assault me. He grossed me the fuck out. Now he's presumably happily married. She's into his nasty ass. I'm not.

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I was under the impression that she had not accused him of rape, and that there were no charges?  I can see why people would read that story and come away thinking that Ansari is a predatory creep.  That seems like a mild observation compared to the more serious allegation that what does not sound like a rape, was, in fact..a rape.

She didn't. Other people are calling it rape, sexual assault, etc. Whether she does or not is irrelevant to the fact that there are headlines, tweets, posts, etc. all calling him those things all around the world now. A lot of people will see only those blurbs, not bothering to read any further.

[downbeatplumb]

Yeah, there's this sort of movement toward the idea that women have to give explicit and constant consent during any sexual encounter that I'm not buying. I don't want to have to do that. If I say no, either physically by pushing a man away/keeping my legs firmly closed/hitting him or verbally by telling him no clearly, then I've not given consent. If I engage in sexual behavior with him, and don't say no, I consider it consent, even if it icked me out then or later. Now, I do understand that coercion is a bitch. It's happened to me, but only after I've clearly said no. I did this weird thing when I was younger. If I said no and the person basically behaved like or stated that I couldn't say no, I just froze mentally and went through the paces. I consider that assault. If I never said no and just went through the paces, then I had a shady encounter, but I can't blame anyone other than myself for not speaking up.

[henryp]

Maybe things that are 'creepy as hell' should be considered unacceptable?

They are, just not on the same level as assault. They're unacceptable in the same way that a lot of other relationship-related things are unacceptable. You walk away with an icky feeling and then move on with your life, never going back. It's the same way we express anything is unacceptable in a relationship. People have to define that for themselves, though. Another hyper-sexual woman might have loved that shit and come back for more.

I once had a guy kiss me super forcefully out of nowhere. I hated the guy. He had no cues that this was okay. I was super clear that it wasn't and never put myself in a situation where I was alone with him (even for five minutes on a porch at a friend's party, as this was). He didn't assault me. He grossed me the fuck out. Now he's presumably happily married. She's into his nasty ass. I'm not.

The problem with that, is if the guy is okay with being 'gross,' you can forcefully kiss whoever you want.  Is there any incentive for the guy to behave accordingly?  Or is it just 'the way things work.  Sorry ladies, but gross fucks are going to jam their tongues in your mouth from time to time."   Hell, he probably doesn't even think he's gross.  Just thinks you're an uptight bitch, so he'll have no problem doing it again and again.

Again, that status quo works spectacular for gross guy, and women get, hopefully just figuratively, fucked over.

[Catholic_Lady]

Let me be clear here that even though I don't agree with this encounter being made public, with Aziz's name being dragged through the mud, and with the accusations of assault.... I AM otherwise glad that those sorts of actions by men (Aziz's actions) are being talked about.

I think it's wrong for men to be pushy like that. I think it's wrong that he pressured her. I think it's wrong to try to have sex with someone you barely know on a first date. I think the rough, rushed, inconsiderate way he did things with a woman he barely knew is wrong.

He strikes me as a man who watches way too much porn and visualized this encounter with some chick he barely knew as playing out like a porn scene. He got caught up in the moment and wasn't thinking about her as a human being - as someone's daughter. But rather as some sort of sex object. He took her out for a quickie dinner and immediately got her naked and tried to have sex with her, and was pushy about it.

...And this happens way too often. How many women have had to deal with men pushing for sex? Testing boundaries? Probably every single one of us. (Not by Mr CL for me, just wanna make that clear)

Is it assault? No. Is it wrong and shitty? Absolutely. And unfortunately it's the norm. It needs to not be the norm anymore.

[The Grand Nudger]

She didn't. Other people are calling it rape, sexual assault, etc. Whether she does or not is irrelevant to the fact that there are headlines, tweets, posts, etc. all calling him those things all around the world now. A lot of people will see only those blurbs, not bothering to read any further.

The Internet Howler Monkey Brigade says alot of things.  I wouldn't worry about it being a problem until we start filing charges. 

@Constant consent.....isn't that what I'm getting when she keeps saying yes?   Minor question, what if she keeps saying yes..but some other guys name?  Is she giving that fucker consent?  Because it seems like I'm the one putting in all the work.  

[Catholic_Lady]

Maybe things that are 'creepy as hell' should be considered unacceptable?

Yes. And that may be the one good thing that is coming from this story. Though the way its being done is wrong and unfair to Aziz.

[Shell B]

Here's the thing, gross chicks are going to do the same things to guys.

The real problem is that you can't change that system unless you start to call unsolicited kisses sexual assault. That's literally how humans initiate sexual encounters. You go in for the kiss and see what happens. If it works, you take it a step further, as Aziz did, and keep going until you hit a dead end. Both women and men have to be clear about the dead end. And, yes, people are going to kiss you (or try to kiss you) sometimes. It's going to be gross, but it's not illegal and shouldn't be because, well, slippery ass slope.

If the woman literally gets fucked over, she's been raped. That's already illegal.

Is it not PC to expect women to take any responsibility for themselves? Have we flipped completely over to the idea that women are helpless and instead of treating them as the wife-beaters of old did, we now treat them like children who can't possibly navigate the icky world of dating? I, for one, don't like the idea that I'm a voiceless victim in every encounter any more than I like the idea that I'm inferior and need to be punished. This doesn't help women, and it's definitely going to hurt men.

[The Grand Nudger]

Gross chicks and otherwise cute chicks do pull the same routine, ofc. I think they assume we all totally want the pussy. It's creepy predator shit in both cases. She was taken advantage of, that much is clear. She shouldn't have stuck his dick in her mouth, that much is also clear.