Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[paulpablo]

I just watched a comedy clip of him and I think he is surprisingly funny.  I didn't think I'd like it because I don't like too many stand up comedians these days.

[John V]

Nor do their friends spontaneously start undressing them.  

Correct, which shows that they both thought they were on a romantic date, and not just friends.

Perhaps she lost interest in sex after first being interested? Perhaps that change of mind came when her clothes were already off?

Seems that way.

I'm pretty sure that getting naked doesn't constitute any form of contractual obligation in any state.

No one has said it does.

So you don't know.

Nope, not 100%, but considering the marble counters, the kitchen floor is a reasonable conclusion.

I see. But just to play along with your assumption: put yourself in her shoes.

OK, in her shoes, at the point that I was getting weirded out and no longer interested, I would have said Sorry, but I'm not interested in going any further or some such, and put my clothes on.

Would you feel comfortable bending over in front of a guy after you'd just spent some time being chased around the house? Especially after he's just offered to bend you over and fuck you? Because those clothes ain't gonna magically fly up onto her body by themselves.

Yeah, that's why you use clear verbal communication instead of wandering around mumbling for a half hour.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. You've got a lot of assumptions built into your judgement of events.

It's not an assumption, it's a reasonable conclusion from the account given.

[J a c k]

Assault or no assault...

(Heartspill)

I’m concerned about women being afraid to impose.
He’s having a good time, I don’t want him to think I’m boring. I want to stop, but I want him to stop because he wants to, not because I tell him to. This guy’s a creep, but for some reason I still don’t want him to think I’m lame, so I’ll see how much more I can take. I think he’s gross right now, but I don’t want to hurt his feelings, so I won’t say anything. I feel forced, but I’ll try to filter the way I say it, so his feelings are spared. I don’t want to be a tease, so I can’t get dressed if I’m already naked.

This is a problem. Just typing it was difficult. I was in an abusive relationship in which I was made to feel guilty when I refused sex. He’d even cry. He’d yell. He’d tell me I was making him feel unloved. Was I in love with somebody else? It’s like I owed him sex. Sex was awful. It took so much work on myself to learn that I was capable of shutting him out. I was allowed to send him away. I was my own person and my body belonged to me. I really do empathize with women who are not there yet. I feel the pain of their fear. I can relate, because I treated myself like shit, therefore, I opened the door for others to do it, too. Now I could even come off as a bitch sometimes, and I’m ok with that. I love myself so much that making myself feel comfortable is more important than not being a bitch. I must add that this case is also very different than the one in the article. I was punished for refusing. She didn’t refuse. She wasn’t punished.

Truth is, I learned to treat my body like a second class citizen since I was a child due to assault. When I was assaulted as an adult, I was even left to die. When I read or hear stories about sexual assault, my heart breaks and I want to save them from a future of shame and pain.

I couldn’t even hate my attackers. I was too afraid of them until years later. Now when I hear of one, I hope they rot in prison. I hope any child abuser suffers with a vengeance. I have zero pity.

The reason this case is so concerning to me is because there is a thin line between assault and simply being a creepy dick who wasn’t considerate and missed some signs. I want to be careful about placing an incompetent dumbass in the same category as I’d place the men who hurt me and the ones who have hurt so many other women and men. I believe the type of men (or women) who would rape are less than human and lack heart. I believe they are bad people.

In conclusion:
My heart saddens for women who are afraid of voicing their feelings, and my brain worries about being unfair. Furthermore, I’m very happy that there is a discussion going on (not just here, but everywhere) about this. This is important. I hope it’s productive.

End rant.

[Shell B]

One of mine did rot and die in prison, but not because of anything I did.

[The Grand Nudger]

Aziz thinks it's an important discussion too...but something tells me he might want to  zone in and listen to it sometime.

---

One of mine did rot and die in prison, but not because of anything I did.

#missed opportunities

[Mermaid]

Assault or no assault...

(Heartspill)

I’m concerned about women being afraid to impose.
He’s having a good time, I don’t want him to think I’m boring. I want to stop, but I want him to stop because he wants to, not because I tell him to. This guy’s a creep, but for some reason I still don’t want him to think I’m lame, so I’ll see how much more I can take. I think he’s gross right now, but I don’t want to hurt his feelings, so I won’t say anything. I feel forced, but I’ll try to filter the way I say it, so his feelings are spared. I don’t want to be a tease, so I can’t get dressed if I’m already naked.

This is a problem. Just typing it was difficult. I was in an abusive relationship in which I was made to feel guilty when I refused sex. He’d even cry. He’d yell. He’d tell me I was making him feel unloved. Was I in love with somebody else? It’s like I owed him sex. Sex was awful. It took so much work on myself to learn that I was capable of shutting him out. I was allowed to send him away. I was my own person and my body belonged to me. I really do empathize with women who are not there yet. I feel the pain of their fear. I can relate, because I treated myself like shit, therefore, I opened the door for others to do it, too. Now I could even come off as a bitch sometimes, and I’m ok with that. I love myself so much that making myself feel comfortable is more important than not being a bitch. I must add that this case is also very different than the one in the article. I was punished for refusing. She didn’t refuse. She wasn’t punished.

Truth is, I learned to treat my body like a second class citizen since I was a child due to assault. When I was assaulted as an adult, I was even left to die. When I read or hear stories about sexual assault, my heart breaks and I want to save them from a future of shame and pain.

I couldn’t even hate my attackers. I was too afraid of them until years later. Now when I hear of one, I hope they rot in prison. I hope any child abuser suffers with a vengeance. I have zero pity.

The reason this case is so concerning to me is because there is a thin line between assault and simply being a creepy dick who wasn’t considerate and missed some signs. I want to be careful about placing an incompetent dumbass in the same category as I’d place the men who hurt me and the ones who have hurt so many other women and men. I believe the type of men (or women) who would rape are less than human and lack heart. I believe they are bad people.

In conclusion:
My heart saddens for women who are afraid of voicing their feelings, and my brain worries about being unfair. Furthermore, I’m very happy that there is a discussion going on (not just here, but everywhere) about this. This is important. I hope it’s productive.

End rant.

Thank you for sharing all of this. It's such a valuable perspective.

[Tiberius]

Being naked creates the rebuttable presumption that the naked person is interested in sex.

No it  does not

I mean...yeah it kinda does. It doesn't grant consent, but if you go back to the home of your date and get naked, you are certainly sending a signal that you are interested in some sexual activity.

Unless you are both nudists.

Pretty sure neither of these people are.

[Mermaid]

Yeah, that's why you use clear verbal communication instead of wandering around mumbling for a half hour.

Is this something everyone is capable of doing? Have you ever thought for a minute about why someone would feel unable to eject from a social situation like this?

[Amarok]

No it  does not

I mean...yeah it kinda does. It doesn't grant consent, but if you go back to the home of your date and get naked, you are certainly sending a signal that you are interested in some sexual activity.

Unless you are both nudists.

Pretty sure neither of these people are.

Nope getting naked does not mean sex it could mean a form of intimacy but not necessarily sex .

---

Yeah, that's why you use clear verbal communication instead of wandering around mumbling for a half hour.

Or a guy can take a hint and conclude that something is off . That seems more sensible .

[Shell B]

"some form of intimacy" "some sexual activity"

You're saying the same thing.