Trump administration announces conscience and religious freedom HHS Division

[Catholic_Lady]

I guess when it happens then y'all can remember me and how wrong I was, and I'll just have to eat crow lol. In the mean time though, I'll continue to think it's an unrealistic thing to worry about and all this outrage is unreasonable.

Your already wrong because it's already happened . So would like that original recipe or extra crispy .

Where did this happen? Unbiased link please.

The law just now passed. I'm not sure how doctors are supposedly already using it in court to refuse gay patients, and winning.

[Whateverist]

The only way I see this being reasonable is with a mental health counselor turning down a gay person as a client. If the counselor believes homosexual activity and gay marriage are immoral, he may not be able to be fully objective while a gay client is talking to him about relationship issues and seeking help for struggles with homosexuality, etc. At which point, turning down the gay client and directing him to a more suited counselor would be the right thing to do, to avoid any sort of bias and inadequate treatment.

This should be legal of course. And already kind of happens within the mental health profession. Example: my sister is having issues in her marriage so she started seeing a therapist to help deal with her end of things. After several sessions, she wanted to bring her husband to that same therapist to get help for him too, and eventually do couples counseling. The therapist turned down treating her husband and treating them together as a couple. Since he already knew her side of the story too much, he said he would run the risk of not being fully objective when counseling her husband, so he set them up with a different therapist in the office.

Does this mean now that it's going to fly in courts if a dentist were to refuse to clean a gay patient's teeth? Or if a brain surgeon refuses to remove a brain tumor from a lesbian? Or if an emergency room doctor refuses to save the life of the transgender person who just got rushed in with gun shot wounds? Simply because of these people's sexuality? I'll believe it if I see it I suppose.

Well yeah.  If it were just a case of not being sure of how objective one could be then by all means disclose the conflict and let the patient decide.  But if the real reason is that the therapist just dislikes being in the company of that group of people, they should work on that.  A fine line.

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Well I never thought this country would elect a white supremacist to the presidency.  Be prepared to be disappointed.

Out of curiosity, how much of a 'white supremacist' do you really think he is?  Without hyperbole.

I think he has the same revulsion toward lots of nonwhite groups that he has for blood.  It is despicable that someone elected to lead us all routinely speaks up for racists as he did for the driver of that car which ran down a protestor.

[Amarok]

Out of curiosity, how much of a 'white supremacist' do you really think he is?  Without hyperbole.

Do you really need to ask ?

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Where did this happen? Unbiased link please.

We already link it on this thread . And what qualifies as  "unbiased " 

The law just now passed. I'm not sure how doctors are supposedly already using it in court to refuse gay patients, and winning.

Not this law but similar state laws and incidences were health care providers have turned away gay and trans people. This law will just broaden this and make it all the easier .

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Does this mean now that it's going to fly in courts if a dentist were to refuse to clean a gay patient's teeth? Or if a brain surgeon refuses to remove a brain tumor from a lesbian? Or if an emergency room doctor refuses to save the life of the transgender person who just got rushed in with gun shot wounds? Simply because of these people's sexuality? I'll believe it if I see it I suppose.

You mean like this 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/...tions.html

Or this 

http://crosscut.com/2017/12/providence-h...u-lawsuit/

[brewer]

Some people don't want to look when it does not directly involve them. Google the topic and read the articles. 

The "just go to another provider" does not work when you are poor and/or live in small communities with limited providers. 

And it's more that just the LGBT community. It's happened with birth control, emergency contraception and pregnancy/miscarriage complications.

[Amarok]

Some people don't want to look when it does not directly involve them. Google the topic and read the articles. 

The "just go to another provider" does not work when you are poor and/or live in small communities with limited providers. 

And it's more that just the LGBT community. It's happened with birth control, emergency contraception and pregnancy/miscarriage complications.

Nor should you have too "go to another provider " . Just because the staff believe in archaic  magic derp.

[Catholic_Lady]

Out of curiosity, how much of a 'white supremacist' do you really think he is?  Without hyperbole.

Do you really need to ask ?

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Where did this happen? Unbiased link please.

We already link it on this thread . And what qualifies as  "unbiased " 

The law just now passed. I'm not sure how doctors are supposedly already using it in court to refuse gay patients, and winning.

Not this law but similar state laws and incidences were health care providers have turned away gay and trans people. This law will just broaden this and make it all the easier .

---

Does this mean now that it's going to fly in courts if a dentist were to refuse to clean a gay patient's teeth? Or if a brain surgeon refuses to remove a brain tumor from a lesbian? Or if an emergency room doctor refuses to save the life of the transgender person who just got rushed in with gun shot wounds? Simply because of these people's sexuality? I'll believe it if I see it I suppose.

You mean like this 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/...tions.html

Or this 

http://crosscut.com/2017/12/providence-h...u-lawsuit/

On the first link, nothing actually happened... It was more about them rambling on about what they think *could* happen, and the second was a denial to remove someone's boobs. They weren't discriminating against the person, they were refusing to do a procedure they did not agree with.

(Edited)

[Amarok]

Do you really need to ask ?

---

We already link it on this thread . And what qualifies as  "unbiased " 


Not this law but similar state laws and incidences were health care providers have turned away gay and trans people. This law will just broaden this and make it all the easier .

---

You mean like this 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/...tions.html

Or this 

http://crosscut.com/2017/12/providence-h...u-lawsuit/

On the first link, nothing actually happened... It was more about them rambling on about what they think *could* happen, and the second was a denial to remove someone's boobs. They weren't discriminating against the person, they were refusing to do a procedure they did not agree with.

(Edited)

So you going to address the one put earlier in the thread

And no the second one was a refusal because the person was trans not just because of the procedure

[I_am_not_mafia]

I guess when it happens then y'all can remember me and how wrong I was, and I'll just have to eat crow lol. In the mean time though, I'll continue to think it's an unrealistic thing to worry about and all this outrage is unreasonable.

It's already happened, but you decide to shut your ears to it so you don't have to do anything.  See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil.

Which is how fascism gains power. Not because there are a few zealots who believe in their ideology but because normal people don't believe that it can happen.

This is why there is a white supremacist in the white house. Normal people trying to find normal explanations for abnormal views.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or know that it does...but can't bring themselves to acknowledge it because it might damage some other ideological commitment or personal consistency.

So, for example...there are plenty of trumpsters, right now..that see exactly what "hurr durr liberals" see....but because of previous comments and his attachment to something they hold dear, play completely dumb.

[henryp]

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Out of curiosity, how much of a 'white supremacist' do you really think he is?  Without hyperbole.

I think he has the same revulsion toward lots of nonwhite groups that he has for blood.  It is despicable that someone elected to lead us all routinely speaks up for racists as he did for the driver of that car which ran down a protestor.

So if he sees a black person, he gets nauseous and has to leave the room?  or gets light headed, and loses his appetite?  I don't know exactly what his reaction towards blood is, but I assume this is either hyperbole or inaccurate.

And I don't remember him 'speaking up' for the guy who murdered a bunch of people.  Are you objecting to the 'decent people on both sides' comment?  Because a decent person can want to keep confederate statues up.  Violent racists like confederate statues.  But that doesn't mean everybody who likes confederate statues is a violent racist.  I assume he wasn't including the murderer in the decent people on both sides, just like he probably wasn't including violent antifa people on the anti-statue side