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Lethe I agree with some of what you say, I do not agree with your reference that God is a tyrant, I see Him as a loving God who will help us to deal with whatever life deals us.I actually wasn't trying to parallel evolution with God in that instance. I was trying to convey that the mechanism of evolution (natural selection) isn't a conscious process -- if environmental conditions permit (abundant food, medicine, fiscal support, et cetera), even genes considered to be defective will have the ability to pass on to future generations, as these defective genes don't put the human or humans at as great a disadvantage as they would under harsher conditions. So I wouldn't consider it corrupting the gene pool, as greater diversity leads to greater resilience (on the species level) to different threats.
Quote:I do not believe that evolution had a thing to do with compassion, that is a trait we receive from God. As for the wolves,elephants and other animals if times get hard they will sacrifice their young for the well being of the group. That is not what humans do we can see that evidence in all the starving people in the world and this is just one reason I believe in God.
I would have to say I disagree on humans being unable to sacrifice members of their own species, young or old, for a 'greater good'. Soldiers being the first brand of sacrifice that comes to mind. And there were those that sacrificed humans (sometimes their own children) to deities in the hopes a sacrifice of such magnitude would placate these gods. Cannibalism among the otherwise starving has been observed on numerous occasions. As well as using other humans as 'decoys' to escape being targeted oneself. From what I've observed, humans can and do resort to desperate measures during desperate times. Then again, I don't claim to be unbiased. Ultimately I view humans as animals, undoubtedly dissimilar to your views. That isn't to say I attribute us any less value than I would did I not. I must say I adore this hunk o' rock, warts and all.
Yes I would agree that some humans have sacrificed their children to preserve their life, I do however think that those cases are the exception and not the rule. The soldier is a voluntary job and I do not think that most soldiers believe that they will die in combat, I've heard soldiers say that they are fighting for the persons on each side of them before anything else and I can't say that I blame them. I like them love this hunk o' rock, warts and all. The cowards that would use humans as decoys are something less than human in my opinion. Physically we are no different than animals, our greater mind does seperate us from animals, however it's the traits of the human that is unique to us that makes us different from animals. Most people, even christians, do not read the creation account in the book of Genesis and notice that God only created three times, I'm not going to spell all that out now but the third time God creates it was to seperate man from the animals in a very unique way and that was to give us a soul so that we could understand what we had been given and to be able to have a living relationship with Him.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Quote:Dang! For a "theist", you sure seem awfully hostile!
Well his god ( or at least his god's "dad" is a real prick.
Quote:Leviticus 26:27-29 (New International Version)
27 “‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
(November 15, 2010 at 6:54 pm)Godschild Wrote: Lethe I agree with some of what you say, I do not agree with your reference that God is a tyrant, I see Him as a loving God who will help us to deal with whatever life deals us.
Oh? How has he helped you? Directly I mean, not some woo about how you were feeling sad, prayed, and felt much better, or some relative was dying and you prayed and they got better.
(November 16, 2010 at 12:18 am)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Leviticus 26:27-29 (New International Version)
27 “‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
Mmmmmm.... long pig.
A finite number of monkeys with a finite number of typewriters and a finite amount of time could eventually reproduce 4chan.
Quote:Dang! For a "theist", you sure seem awfully hostile!
Well his god ( or at least his god's "dad" is a real prick.
Quote:Leviticus 26:27-29 (New International Version)
27 “‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
My god's dad? What are you talking about? You haven't even asked me what religion I am, yet you're assuming that I'm a christian. I hope you've never written any science books mate, your research skills leave a lot to be desired.
November 16, 2010 at 3:18 pm (This post was last modified: November 16, 2010 at 3:19 pm by TheDarkestOfAngels.)
(November 16, 2010 at 1:31 pm)Paul the Human Wrote: Cando has been banned for being a sock puppet of Godhead, the permanently banned.
He's like a zombie that's immune to head-shots. He just keeps coming back.
(Apparently mastered helmet technology, like in Resident Evil Four).
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
(November 15, 2010 at 6:54 pm)Godschild Wrote: Lethe I agree with some of what you say, I do not agree with your reference that God is a tyrant, I see Him as a loving God who will help us to deal with whatever life deals us.
Oh? How has he helped you? Directly I mean, not some woo about how you were feeling sad, prayed, and felt much better, or some relative was dying and you prayed and they got better.
(November 16, 2010 at 12:18 am)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:Leviticus 26:27-29 (New International Version)
27 “‘If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
Mmmmmm.... long pig.
Let's see He has helped me to stop smoking, drug use, profanity, abusing alcohol, gave me much more compassion and a great desire to help others and all this before He led me to a church to be a youth leader. He has helped me through my fathers death which effected me more than I could possibly imagine.He has helped me through the deaths of many close family members and several good friends. He helped me through the death of one of the youth in my youth group and used me to help others through such a terrible event. He helps me to make good decisions, when I listen to Him. For years, 30 to be exact, I have asked God to help me choose a vehicle be it car or truck that would be nearly trouble free and He has. In those 30 years we have only had to purchase four vehicles and none of them has given us much of a problem. I've asked Him for protection in our lives and to this day He has, asked Him to get us through illness and He has both physically and with peace of mind. I've prayed for many others and you'll need to ask them about their situations, I do not always see or hear from a lot of these people. I could go on and on for these are just a few things God as done in my life and all the unknown I guess will be revealed when I meet Him face to face.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
November 17, 2010 at 8:24 am (This post was last modified: November 17, 2010 at 8:30 am by Skipper.)
(November 16, 2010 at 11:23 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(November 16, 2010 at 2:35 am)Loki_999 Wrote: Oh? How has he helped you? Directly I mean, not some woo about how you were feeling sad, prayed, and felt much better, or some relative was dying and you prayed and they got better.
Let's see He has helped me to stop smoking, drug use, profanity, abusing alcohol, gave me much more compassion and a great desire to help others and all this before He led me to a church to be a youth leader. He has helped me through my fathers death which effected me more than I could possibly imagine.He has helped me through the deaths of many close family members and several good friends. He helped me through the death of one of the youth in my youth group and used me to help others through such a terrible event. He helps me to make good decisions, when I listen to Him.
All them things people can and do get through without believing in a god. Sorry to say it, it just so happens that you decided to believe god was looking after you as a coping method to help you deal with the issues you had. God played no part at all, the human mind is a very subjective thing.
(November 16, 2010 at 11:23 pm)Godschild Wrote: For years, 30 to be exact, I have asked God to help me choose a vehicle be it car or truck that would be nearly trouble free and He has. In those 30 years we have only had to purchase four vehicles and none of them has given us much of a problem.
haha. Yea, there are millions of people suffering the world over, some very religious ones, who live their whole lives in poverty amongst sickness and war yet god chooses to ignore their plight and helps you get a good deal on a car. Can you not see how silly you sound?
(November 16, 2010 at 11:23 pm)Godschild Wrote: I've asked Him for protection in our lives and to this day He has, asked Him to get us through illness and He has both physically and with peace of mind.
Why are you getting ill in the first place if god was only going to cure you anyway? I obviously believe in no gods yet when I was admitted to hospital for a week I was treated by the doctors and nurses and made a full recovery, by attributing recovery to some higher power that you have no proof for you do a dis service to all those health professionals who helped me and others get better and all the years of scientific discovery that has led us to the point we are at now that allows us to prevent and treat so many more illness' and problems than we ever could in the past ( by the way why didn't god "lead" us to these discoveries earlier so we could save more lives? Why now, over the last two hundred years when according to your lot we are living in even more sin than ever before, I would have thought he would have hidden them so as to punish us) . Also, it's interesting that the amount of people who are ill who also pray and believe in god that don't get better is as high as it is, why does god save some, such as you, and not others in your eyes? Have you ever tried refusing treatment for an illness and just prayed? Try it, and lets see how far you get.
I was trying to convey that the mechanism of evolution (natural selection) isn't a conscious process -- if environmental conditions permit (abundant food, medicine, fiscal support, et cetera), even genes considered to be defective will have the ability to pass on to future generations, as these defective genes don't put the human or humans at as great a disadvantage as they would under harsher conditions. So I wouldn't consider it corrupting the gene pool, as greater diversity leads to greater resilience (on the species level) to different threats.
