Monica Lewinsky Still Passing the Buck

[Shell B]

I liked the Me Too movement as a way for people to stand up and be counted, so to speak. It was great at the beginning because it showed people they weren't alone. Now, it's just a way for people who were never assaulted or harassed to lump themselves in with people who have been. That is not, of course, to say that Lewinsky's never been harassed or assaulted. She just wasn't in this instance, by her own decades of admissions.

[Catholic_Lady]

Is anyone else conflicted by the Me Too movement? I am.

It's like this. No one, male or female's job (unless they actually signed up to be a prostitute) should ever have their job hinge on giving out sexual favors. No boss should ever imply that it does. Full stop.

Some people actually want to sleep with their bosses. They shouldn't get any sympathy if they do and it goes sour unless the boss fires or demotes them because it soured.

But that doesn't mean that every women who complains was actually forced to have sex. Even women,, yes women and kids, lie sometimes. Nor does it mean that every man or woman who was ever asked out by their boss is a victim. So a single unsupported accusation shouldn't end anyone's career. Perhaps some investigation first?

And there's the time frame problem. Sleep with me or else is/was always wrong. But innuendo and leering in 1980 and earlier might be given a pass for ignorance.

But any moderation appears to be not allowed. It's getting as impossible to compromise as gun control and abortion rights.

Monica wanted to have sex with the Pres. Her choice, her problem.

I remember her giving an interview back in the day and going on about how they had an immediate connection and how she was so attracted to him. Such a joke that she's trying to pull this shit now.

[Shell B]

I can't tell whether that's snarky or not (sorry, Internet doesn't really leave room for subtleties). I'll just say it doesn't affect my life either, but this is a discussion board, so I thought I'd discuss it. If you have more important issues to contemplate, you don't have to take up the time you could spend on them by commenting here. Again, I can't tell if that was just your take on the discussion or your assessment of people discussing it, so forgive me if I'm responding to intentions that didn't exist.

As for me, I thought it was interesting on several levels that Ms. Lewinsky continues to bring this up as some evil that was done against her. In the grander scheme of social movements that are happening right now, it is relevant and therefore worth talking about.

Sure, I can support the assertion that in the grander scheme of social movements that are happening right now, President Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky is relevant and worth talking about.
But why then say that one of the principals - Ms. Lewinsky - should just shut up? She has a right to opine on the matter too. 

-Teresa

Ah, so it was snark. When I said she should just shut up, I suppose I meant that I'd prefer she would if she is going to continue to misrepresent her role in a scandal that not only cost taxpayers more dollars than I care to count but was also partly her fault. I'm not saying she has no right to talk about anything. I don't recall saying, "Monica Lewinsky should shut her mouth or be arrested." or "We should all force Monica Lewinsky to shut up." I also said they should both shut up about it, not just her. All she is doing right now is minimizing abuses of power that people actually suffer by counting herself among the victims. Moreover, shit or not, Vanity Fair has a lot of readers. She has some measure of influence, so whether she shuts up or not actually has some impact. Now, why aren't you pondering the more important things you have on your list of things to ponder? Could it be you're not floating above it all unaffected after all?

[Minimalist]

Ha, I didn't know blow jobs were losing popularity. I've always been told they're a big hit.

Nobody talked about them in public until Monica came along.  I mean, fair's fair, Shel. She did a lot for the cause!

[Edwardo Piet]

I can't stop thinking [insert something far too explicit to post here]

[vorlon13]

Ha, I didn't know blow jobs were losing popularity. I've always been told they're a big hit.

Nobody talked about them in public until Monica came along.  I mean, fair's fair, Shel. She did a lot for the cause!

You may not be old enough to remember when Deep Throat came out.

Even I saw it, 75 or 76. Harry Reems was godlike.

You'd be surprised how socially acceptable it was for people to see Deep Throat. Joe Bob Briggs book Profoundly Disturbing has quite a write up on the phenomena.

[AFTT47]

I remember a photo of Monica shaking Bill's hand at his second inauguration. Sometimes a woman will give a man a look that is described as, "fuck-me eyes." In that photo, she had, "fuck-me until it hurts while Hillary watches eyes." It coulndn't have been more obvious.

[Rev. Rye]

Is anyone else conflicted by the Me Too movement?  I am.

It's like this.  No one, male or female's job (unless they actually signed up to be a prostitute) should ever have their job hinge on giving out sexual favors.  No boss should ever imply that it does.  Full stop.

Some people actually want to sleep with their bosses.  They shouldn't get any sympathy if they do and it goes sour unless the boss fires or demotes them because it soured.

But that doesn't mean that every women who complains was actually forced to have sex.  Even women,, yes women and kids,  lie sometimes.  Nor does it mean that every man or woman who was ever asked out by their boss is a victim. So a single unsupported accusation shouldn't end anyone's career.  Perhaps some investigation first?

And there's the time frame problem.  Sleep with me or else is/was always wrong.  But innuendo and leering in 1980 and earlier might be given a pass for ignorance.

But any moderation appears to be not allowed. It's getting as impossible to compromise as gun control and abortion rights.

Monica wanted to have sex with the Pres.  Her choice, her problem.

Me too. On the one hand, sexual harrassment of all kinds is a huge problem and vastly underreported. Unfortunately, the thing is the movement seems to have decided that therefore, EVERY incident reported should be treated as the Gospel Truth (note, elsewhere, I used statistics from RAINN and the biggest study of false accusations and concluded that a false accusation of rape likely happened once every three hours; small in comparison to the number that actually do happen and never get reported, but still a non-negligible number), and, furthermore, deciding to treat every sexual misconduct whether a come-on or full-blown rape as deserving the same punishment. And don't take my word for it, take Amber Tamblyn's. And I'm going to be charitable and assume that either Amber A) doesn't know about the fact that Forced Disappearances are really a thing (most notably used by Latin American dictators in the 1970s and 1980s) B) Did not have that on her mind when she wrote it. Because if she was aware, it would appear she's openly advocating Hollywood should commit what Article 7 of the Rome Statute describes as crimes against humanity. I hope to Hell she was at least less aware of the implications of that than her invocation of Dubya earlier in the same paragraph. 

Overall, William Burroughs said it best: "the oppressed love the oppressors and cannot wait to follow their example." And now, they're hell-bent on doing so and hell-bent on making sure they remain unaware that they're falling into the same exact traps their oppressors used to keep them down, or if they do become aware, it's okay because they're not the ones getting shafted this time around, and their ideology has allowed them to create a self-image that lets them feel good about themselves, regardless of their circumstances.

In a shitty position, whether it's having a crappy date or being raped and tortured? Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.
When you actually do get in a position where you can inherit the Earth? I told you women aren't meek creatures who live to serve men!

Let it be known, it's likely that most of the allegations being thrown about are accurate and many of the men accused are almost certainly guilty. But it's a dangerous leap to assume that just because most of them are right, then all of them are right (there has to be a name for that fallacy, but I don't know what it is.) You'd just be taking the prejudices that kept the Weinsteins in power for so long and just flipping who benefits from it all. You really think you can make the world a safer place? You'll have to do better than switching out who benefits from what bullshit power structure.

[chimp3]

I think it is counterproductive to infantilize adult women (or men)!

[Minimalist]

You may not be old enough to remember when Deep Throat came out.

Old enough... I was up for a part in it but Harry Reems beat me out by a millimeter.