Is there such a thing as choice ?

[lrh9]

According to modern neuroscience, the brain is a network of relatively simple neurons acting in parallel. A neuron is a unit consisting of a cell body called a soma, a number of fibers called dendrites, and a single long fiber called an axon. The dendrites branch out in a network around the soma, and the axon stretches out to the dendrites and somas of other neurons. Where one neuron's axon meets another neuron's dendrites is a connection called a synapse.

Signals propagate from one neuron to another by complex electrochemical reactions. Synapses release chemicals that cause a change in a soma's electrical potential. When the soma's potential reaches its threshold, an electrical impulse is sent via its axon. The pulse reaches other synapses, changing their potential. A synapse's potential is a "weight" that determines the magnitude of the changes in a soma's electrical potential.

Another feature of neural networks is their plasticity. In response to an impulse pattern, neurons exhibit long-term changes in the strength of their connections. Neurons can also form new connections with other neurons. Entire collections of neurons can migrate from one place to another.

Our brain is a highly complex, nonlinear, and parallel information-processing system. Information is stored and processed in our neural network simultaneously throughout the whole network. Due to the plasticity of our brain, connections between neurons leading to the "right answer" are strengthened while those leading to the "wrong answer" weaken. Neural networks learn through experience.

Whether a soma activates or not is a branch. Just like whether a bit of data in a computer is less than, equal to, or greater than another bit of data is a branch. The result will be in that range. Some might call that a choice. Does will play a role in the result? Is will deterministic or non-deterministic? Those are the real questions.

[theVOID]

Pretty simply, who we are is made up of two things: nature, and nurture.

Nature is the information already encoded in our DNA: from our height to our skin color to our propensity to fall victim to addiction to a thousand other things.

That's not strictly true, the actions we take and the environment we are in changes the way our genes are expressed too.

Nurture is the experiences we live, the influence of the people around us and of society.

Now, we are born without nurture by definition, so there all our choices are made by our genetic information. Then, the influence of parents, then family, friends, teachers, makes us who we are. And every choice we make is dependent of what we already experienced. Even when we make a choice, it is dictated by nature or nurture. Even when you break away from what you have been taught, there is a natural or "nurtural" reason for it.

It's dictated by our nature and nurture, nor or Small point, other than that I agree.

So the question is: since we are products of two concepts that we have absolutely no control over, do we make decisions at all or are we just complicated pre-programmed machines, with no free will ?

We do make decisions in the sense that we evaluate the different options in any multi-choice scenario. When we chose between competing options we essentially evaluate them against our desires and we always chose the one that we believe will fulfill the most of our desires, the actual thinking process is our experience of the brain making these evaluations and determining what option best leads this end.

[Skipper]

No free will, our brains are extremely elaborate multichannel Rube Goldberg machines containing both preprogramed and programmable parts. The behavior of the machine is determined by the input, the preprograming, the programing, and the state of biological construction and repair of all its parts. The perception of freewill is part of the mechanism, but even that part is fundamentally deterministic. The entire machine is ultimately deterministic, although due to the nonlinear complexity of the mechanism and uncertainties surrounding the exact values of all relevent inputs, its behavior might seem difficult to predict.

I believe there is free will. And have never really bought into the whole philosophical discussion of it, perhaps due to a lack of interest or understanding. However that argument there is the most interesting and understandable way I've seen the argument for lack of free choice, put. Congratulations sir.


I still however had the choice to reply to you or not, and it's choices that I can make such as this one that lead me to believe in free choice. I guess you can theorize that it's just the illusion of free choice, yet we could theorize anything is just an illusion of itself, yet I choose, perhaps out of ignorance, to take things as they are, illusion or not and deal with life that way, makes it a fuck load simpler.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

It seems that most people lack understanding of the word "choice" and its definition. Choice is defined as the possibility to take an action based on two or more options. Right now I am deciding whether or not to cut down Shinylight's feeble logic, and I have decided to with this sentence.
Your argument states that this was never a decision; that I would always try to cut down your logic based on the two factors. This is false. Just because I pick a certain option does not mean the choice does not exist.

[theVOID]

Are you actually making a choice for any reason other than you have pre-existing leanings towards one of the positions more so than the other?

[ib.me.ub]

Is there free will, Yes.

I would say from the viewpoint of free will being Non-Determanistic.

[Rayaan]

John Searle incorporates ideas from physics, neurobiology, and philosophy into an interesting discussion on the possibility of the existence of free will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCyKNtocdZE

[Anomalocaris]

Is there free will, Yes.

I would say from the viewpoint of free will being Non-Determanistic.

Does Quantum fluctuation have free will?

[ib.me.ub]

Is there free will, Yes.

I would say from the viewpoint of free will being Non-Determanistic.

Does Quantum fluctuation have free will?

Would this then not assume that quantum fluctuation itself is conscious?

Isn't free will related to humans beings and their ability to express free choice?

[Anomalocaris]

Is there free will, Yes.

I would say from the viewpoint of free will being Non-Determanistic.

Does Quantum fluctuation have free will?

Would this then not assume that quantum fluctuation itself is conscious?

Isn't free will related to humans beings and their ability to express free choice?

Then postulate a mechanism, other than quantum fluctuation, for human beings to make choices that are in principle, as oppose to by current technology, non-deterministic. If quantum fluctuation is the only plausible mechanism for theoretical nondeterminism, then would not human free will ultimately reside in quantum fplucturation?