who created christianity

[lilyannerose]

I am trying to understand what exactly you are saying, and what basis you have for saying it. I have not said that your claim about the tablets and scrolls was wrong. In fact, you're being ignorant by making claims but refusing to provide reasons for your claims

How INSIGHTFUL

You are now on my Ignore list.

[Minimalist]

Here is a page

WHERE is a page?

But let's be clear about something before you even bother. In the late 1800's and first half of the 1900's scads of preachers masquerading as archaeologists went out to the mid-east with a shovel in one hand and a bible in the other to "prove" the bible. Of course, they did so by pronouncing every rock they found to be something that "moses" pissed on. The reason the bible is under attack by archaeology now is that these overzealous bozos set it up to fail. They concocted a whole scheme based on the bible which lasted until carbon dating was perfected and a database of pottery finds for the whole region could be assembled.

in 1967 the Israelis overran Sinai and the West Bank in the 6 day war. Within a couple of years teams of young Israeli archaeologists set out for these places to find evidence of their ancestors. What they found tore the bible to shreds. Teams that went to the Sinai found no evidence of 2 million wandering Jews. More to the point, they found no evidence of the peoples and towns that they supposedly conquered! Teams that went to the West Bank discovered that c 1200 BC the villages which would later evolve into Israel and Judah were founded as simple settlements. The Theory of Indigenous Origin was born and among mainstream archaeologists is today the accepted reality. There was no "conquest." The 'Israelites' were Canaanites who had always been there. With no "conquest" there is no need for a joshua...or a moses....or an exodus. These are just heroic myths of a type common in the ancient world. For that matter, within 20 years of his death all sorts of stupid stories sprung up about George Washington, too. ( He couldn't tell a lie! Please. He was a general. He lied to everyone.)

So, by all means, let's see this "link" you are so proud of. Just remember that the OT speaks of "Ur of the Chaldees." The Chaldeans did not migrate into the area until c 900 BC.

[Lethe]

in fact there were christians before 1000 BC

False. If you're referring to the Hebrews, that's Judaism. The OT was translated from the Torah. Judaism borrowed its own mythology from the mythology of the Ancient Semitic religions, including that of the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Assyrians (from which the flood myth came, among others), as well as from other sources.

[Minimalist]

The OT was translated from the Torah.

That's the story, Lethe. There is no evidence to support it. The earliest OT texts we have are the Greek septuagint which dates from the 3'd century BC. That is why the Dead Sea Scrolls were such an important find. They are the oldest Hebrew ( although some are in Aramaic and Greek) texts of any of this biblical horseshit and they date from the late 2d century BC to the first century AD.

At the time that the septuagint was written ( 280-260 BC) Ptolemy II was in the process of filling up his Great Library in Alexandria and, not so coincidentally, Judaea was under the control of the Ptolemaic Dynasty. There may have been oral tales ( common in temple based religions of the time ) which were written down by Greek scribes.

In any case, we have no OT texts which date from earlier than 280 BC....in any language.

[lilyannerose]

The OT was translated from the Torah.

That's the story, Lethe. There is no evidence to support it. The earliest OT texts we have are the Greek septuagint which dates from the 3'd century BC. That is why the Dead Sea Scrolls were such an important find. They are the oldest Hebrew ( although some are in Aramaic and Greek) texts of any of this biblical horseshit and they date from the late 2d century BC to the first century AD.

At the time that the septuagint was written ( 280-260 BC) Ptolemy II was in the process of filling up his Great Library in Alexandria and, not so coincidentally, Judaea was under the control of the Ptolemaic Dynasty. There may have been oral tales ( common in temple based religions of the time ) which were written down by Greek scribes.

In any case, we have no OT texts which date from earlier than 280 BC....in any language.

Apparently some newer tech is going to enable more of the writings to be picked up from the scrolls, I scan through my paperback on the scrolls from time-to-time but I can't say I've been thrilled with anything I've come across.

[Minimalist]

That would be wonderful. Any technique that can restore an ancient document is welcome. It still is not likely to bring the cache back to before 300 BC.

[16three-john]

my apologies for not including link, did'nt even notice haha

http://www.truthnet.org/Apologetics/7/

[Minimalist]

I'm glad they titled the page "Apologetics." It's the only true thing on the page.

Let's take the first one.

The Sumerian King List.

It comments that the list shows that there were Sumerian kings before AND after the flood.

Who wrote the list after the flood? Weren't they all supposed to be dead? Where did these new Sumerians come from who picked up the same language and continued the chronicle?

For that matter, why did the Egyptians go on building pyramids in spite of the fact that they were all dead? You'd think that being drowned would have slowed them down a little wouldn't you?

---

my apologies for not including link, did'nt even notice haha

http://www.truthnet.org/Apologetics/7/

Actually, my apologies. You may not have had enough posts at that time to attach a link. I think there is a minimum number of posts needed before you can send a link.

It is meant to discourage "shit-and-run" postings.

[Lethe]

That's the story, Lethe. There is no evidence to support it.

I didn't mean to suggest the Torah dates back to as far as it is claimed, merely that the OT/Torah was older (at least in part) than the NT and that Christianity did not predate Judaism. I should have clarified. The oldest known text I know of that parallels with biblical myth is the Epic of Gilgamesh, the best preserved version having been written ca. 640 BCE.

[Anomalocaris]

I am trying to understand what exactly you are saying, and what basis you have for saying it. I have not said that your claim about the tablets and scrolls was wrong. In fact, you're being ignorant by making claims but refusing to provide reasons for your claims

Hypothetically, what evidence, theoretically obtainable using purely - for the lack of better word - nonsupernatural means, would convince you to take seriously the possibility that the fundamental basis of the bible, which is not the existence of some city named ur, but a particular sequence of events starting with a particular god who commands your worship by creating the world in a particular way and subsequently influenced it in a certain manner, could in fact be entirely false?

If your answer is there is none, then you and the rest of us do not share sufficient commonality in our mental frameworks to talk about this subject. If there are, then we can examine whether that standard of evidence you require has or can be met.