Oh no not another free will thread.

[Mystic]

He remembers the past, witnesses the present, and does his best to best shape the future by what he is worthy of.

[Catholic_Lady]

I see it as God being able to see past present and future simultaneously and all at once, because He is outside of time. While we can only see the present because we are bound by time. Think of it as God having the ability to see a cube at an angle, seeing 3 faces of it at a glance (3 squares, if you will.) Let's say we are on one of those squares. All we can see is the square we are currently on. The "present" square.

If the past, present, and future can be seen simultaneously by God, then the past, present, and future simultaneously exist, by necessity. Presentism is the idea that only the present moment exists. If presentism is true, then God cannot see the past nor the future as neither of those exists. You can't see something which doesn't exist. You can predict the future, but that's not knowledge. What you are implicitly describing is the B theory of time in which the future in some sense necessarily already exists. Under the B theory of time, free will becomes incoherent as the choices have already essentially been made already at the inception of existence.

Unless I'm missing something here, I dont see how it makes much sense to say the past and present dont exist? Yesterday happened, and unless time itself ceases, tomorrow will happen as well. Obviously they just don't exist in the present moment, if that's what you mean. But if there is a God and if time doesn't apply to such God, then the restriction is irrelevant.

[Mystic]

I think you contradicted yourself there. The restriction is either there or it's not.

[Catholic_Lady]

I think you contradicted yourself there. The restriction is either there or it's not.

The restriction is there for us, but not for God. That's what I meant.

[Angrboda]

But as I see it, it is exactly for this reason that I AM free.  I am a causal chokepoint, and whatever I decide, it turns out that is what I would have decided.  I find this very comforting, and I game it like this: I do whatever I damn well please, because it turns out-- that crazy and spontaneous behavior was always going to be the one I exhibited.

In what qualitative way is the behavior of the system before the chokepoint different from that after the chokepoint. Essentially you are atttributing to yourself an ontologically privileged status when you are in effect just one in a long line of chemical reactions. That's like saying that when hydrogen and oxygen mix, they are somehow ontologically different than before they combined. They aren't. Perhaps as a psychological fact they are, but that's a pointless irrelevancy.

[Mystic]

I think you contradicted yourself there. The restriction is either there or it's not.

The restriction is there for us, but not for God. That's what I meant.

Then we are under illusion only. The past exists as much as today and the future exists just as much. All time moments as if always there and forever will be.

God is eternal, he doesn't begin doesn't end. But time begins, it didn't always do so. And today ceases in every moment. God is constantly creating, the new creation is constantly being created, and he is not creating the past and the future at the same time.

If it did, it doesn't even make sense to say we only experience time today, because our past self is alive per this, and so is the future...so where we at? It's paradoxical even on that level.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's unfortunate, placing the restriction on god actually could solve the contradiction between the two beliefs.

[Mystic]

It's impossible to create past, present, and future at the same time, if it was possible, then all he would create was eternal existence without a start, and we would all be his equals, because he doesn't have equals not because he would not want to if he could, but because it's impossible and his greatness encompasses all life to the extent that nothing could have been with him and nothing can be with him, he is beyond all places, time is destroyed before reaching him, and attributes go astray regarding him.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'm not suggesting that it was created at the same time.

[Angrboda]

I'm not suggesting that it was created at the same time.

If the future has not already been created, in what sense does it exist? I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.