Civility subsection suggestion

[Angrboda]

That's perspective #1. Here is perspective #2. You find it tedious to waste your time getting wrapped up in responding to people who turn to out be not really interested in the actual discussion. Its entirely possible to troll a discussion and yet remain completely civil at all times. Therefore your proposed solution won't necessarily solve that issue.

Good idea, Oh Lord!

[johan]

That is true that people here are more respectful and considerate of me than they are with some of the other theists. However, let me tell you, it took some time to gain that level of respect. It certainly wasnt like that when I first joined, and building up to that happened gradually over time. I stayed anyway (though taking some breaks in between lol), but others might not if they get too discouraged or don't have the same patience. Or they might become bitter in the process.

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As for perspective #2, I concede that there will always be people who skirt the rules and break the spirit of the rules. But I really think it will be a great improvement in that regard from the rest of the forums. Because people can just act like that on the rest of the forum. So why request to join a section for civil discussion if you dont want civil discussion, when you can just say whatever you want on the rest of the forum? I really do think a section like this would bring down the level of shit posting.

Fair enough and fair enough.

I'm still not sure I like the idea of having to determine where the line is in terms of being civil or not. But I said earlier that I've voiced my concerns and would now leave it at that and let the majority decide. I want to adhere to that. But I would suggest the following. Consider finding a way to avoid kicking out those who break the rules. Or least make kicking out a last resort. Warn, delete posts, warn again etc. Perhaps kick out of the particular thread but not the forum section if that's possible. Just a suggestion.

[Tiberius]

So having skimmed the last few pages, it seems like people would be happier if they were able to swear to emphasize a point, but not if it’s being used to attack / insult someone.

So essentially a forum where we have a stricter enforcement of flaming, would that suffice or are there other rules it would need?

[Edwardo Piet]

So having skimmed the last few pages, it seems like people would be happier if they were able to swear to emphasize a point, but not if it’s being used to attack / insult someone.

So essentially a forum where we have a stricter enforcement of flaming, would that suffice or are there other rules it would need?

For me, actually, I guess what I am saying is rudeness is subjective but swearing at someone isn't. I think the idea of the civility forum is saying "Your point is fucking stupid" and saying "you're fucking stupid" are equally bad if you're trying to be civil. So it's a little step further than no insults. I don't think "ignorant" is an insult. We're all ignorant of something. And calling someone dishonest isn't an insult if you think it's true. Sure, it's unhelpful, because you can't prove the other person is being dishonest anyway... but I don't think it's uncivil. Calling them a "retard" or saying "You're not a retard but your opinions are totally retarded" both seem equally uncivil, despite the former of course being worse.

I don't have a problem with saying in passing something like "I had a fucking amazing meal at a restaurant today. It tasted awesome." I don't think that's uncivil. I guess the idea is that if you're swearing at someone, whether it's them as a person or their position... that isn't helpful to discussion and also makes the overly hypersensitive people run away which makes it harder for them to discuss.

And sometimes it can make certain people take your point less seriously just because you swore at them.

I think it's a great idea and I will participate in there but I am very glad that AF as a whole doesn't require civility rules lol.

[Catholic_Lady]

So having skimmed the last few pages, it seems like people would be happier if they were able to swear to emphasize a point, but not if it’s being used to attack / insult someone.

So essentially a forum where we have a stricter enforcement of flaming, would that suffice or are there other rules it would need?

I'll have to read through the flaming rule again to see if there's anything I would add. But yes, basically the rules would be geared towards facilitating productive dialogue.

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That is true that people here are more respectful and considerate of me than they are with some of the other theists. However, let me tell you, it took some time to gain that level of respect. It certainly wasnt like that when I first joined, and building up to that happened gradually over time. I stayed anyway (though taking some breaks in between lol), but others might not if they get too discouraged or don't have the same patience. Or they might become bitter in the process.

---

As for perspective #2, I concede that there will always be people who skirt the rules and break the spirit of the rules. But I really think it will be a great improvement in that regard from the rest of the forums. Because people can just act like that on the rest of the forum. So why request to join a section for civil discussion if you dont want civil discussion, when you can just say whatever you want on the rest of the forum? I really do think a section like this would bring down the level of shit posting.

Fair enough and fair enough.

I'm still not sure I like the idea of having to determine where the line is in terms of being civil or not. But I said earlier that I've voiced my concerns and would now leave it at that and let the majority decide. I want to adhere to that. But I would suggest the following. Consider finding a way to avoid kicking out those who break the rules. Or least make kicking out a last resort. Warn, delete posts, warn again etc. Perhaps kick out of the particular thread but not the forum section if that's possible. Just a suggestion.

Sounds reasonable.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah that is the problem with the maxim of "when in doubt throw it out", CL: How can that be enforced?

It's a good way to help people be civil... but when they aren't... you can't use that criterion to say that they aren't.

EDIT!

42,200th post!

w00t

[Catholic_Lady]

I can see ignorant being used as an insult. IE "You're so ignorant."

... Not saying it should necessarily be against the rules... I dunno. Personally I wouldnt choose to say that on a civility forum, but that's just me lol.

[Angrboda]

That is true that people here are more respectful and considerate of me than they are with some of the other theists. However, let me tell you, it took some time to gain that level of respect. It certainly wasnt like that when I first joined, and building up to that happened gradually over time. I stayed anyway (though taking some breaks in between lol), but others might not if they get too discouraged or don't have the same patience. Or they might become bitter in the process.

---

As for perspective #2, I concede that there will always be people who skirt the rules and break the spirit of the rules. But I really think it will be a great improvement in that regard from the rest of the forums. Because people can just act like that on the rest of the forum. So why request to join a section for civil discussion if you dont want civil discussion, when you can just say whatever you want on the rest of the forum? I really do think a section like this would bring down the level of shit posting.

Fair enough and fair enough.

I'm still not sure I like the idea of having to determine where the line is in terms of being civil or not. But I said earlier that I've voiced my concerns and would now leave it at that and let the majority decide. I want to adhere to that. But I would suggest the following. Consider finding a way to avoid kicking out those who break the rules. Or least make kicking out a last resort. Warn, delete posts, warn again etc. Perhaps kick out of the particular thread but not the forum section if that's possible. Just a suggestion.

Three strikes you're out. After three strikes, you're banned from that forum for 30 days. ?

[Shell B]

So having skimmed the last few pages, it seems like people would be happier if they were able to swear to emphasize a point, but not if it’s being used to attack / insult someone.

So essentially a forum where we have a stricter enforcement of flaming, would that suffice or are there other rules it would need?

Staying in topic.

[Edwardo Piet]

I can see ignorant being used as an insult. IE "You're so ignorant."

It can be taken as an insult and it is used that way but it isn't actually insulting. If someone is willfully ignorant then that's their problem and if they're not then it's no one's problem. It's not like you're calling someone stupid which attacks their mind or character that they can't even help. I'd consider "stupid" an insult... but not ignorant.