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May 8, 2018 at 4:53 pm (This post was last modified: May 8, 2018 at 5:02 pm by RoadRunner79.)
(May 8, 2018 at 4:46 pm)Kit Wrote: I certainly don't copy and paste arguments I've made in the past.
If you have taken the time to write something well, I don't see anything wrong with this. Of course I would agree that this would be the start of a conversation, and not a replacement for conversation and interaction with others.
I have a few things like this, that I have saved; but, wish I had the discipline to do it more.
Actually, I need to come up with a system to save and tag references to things. Far too often, I find myself researching things all over again.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
May 8, 2018 at 5:06 pm (This post was last modified: May 8, 2018 at 5:32 pm by CDF47.)
So respond to the post rather than discussing your google search of it.
You can come with your army of troll posters and post all the nonsense straw-man arguments and ridicule you like. However, your tricks can't stand up to the truth that DNA and the universe are designed.
May 8, 2018 at 5:49 pm (This post was last modified: May 8, 2018 at 6:51 pm by possibletarian.)
(May 8, 2018 at 4:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(May 8, 2018 at 4:46 pm)Kit Wrote: I certainly don't copy and paste arguments I've made in the past.
If you have taken the time to write something well, I don't see anything wrong with this. Of course I would agree that this would be the start of a conversation, and not a replacement for conversation and interaction with others.
I have a few things like this, that I have saved; but, wish I had the discipline to do it more.
Actually, I need to come up with a system to save and tag references to things. Far too often, I find myself researching things all over again.
I don't see anything wrong with a cut and paste, after all we do it all the time when quoting from other sites.
But likewise it should be the start of a debate, or alternatively explain that its your own work from a few years ago.
(May 8, 2018 at 5:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote: So respond to the post rather than discussing your google search of it.
You can come with your army of troll posters and post all the nonsense straw-man arguments and ridicule you like. However, your tricks can't stand up to the truth that DNA and the universe are designed.
Here is a cut and paste from responses two years ago (look familiar ? )
Quote:Did you just respond to my response by copy-pasting your original post? ><
Quote:Christian scientists: gee, this is complicated, throw it in the "God made it" pile
Quote:You keep saying its clear. Why is there not a consensus among experts in the field?
And this is our problem, We have three big problems here, just as the posters did a few years ago.
1) You have not addressed the refutations.
2) You cannot show any scientific consensus in your favour, despite saying 'the fact', we have to ask who's fact ?
3) You keep just repeating your assertions and throwing god into every 'we don't know' science comes across, an unanswered question is just that no god required (unless you can prove a god did it of course)
Maybe if you carefully answer some of the questions put before you ?
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
(May 8, 2018 at 5:06 pm)CDF47 Wrote: So respond to the post rather than discussing your google search of it.
Should I?...
Do you promise to then follow through and address the multiple problems I find with your post?
Or will you go back to doing what you've done throughout this thread which is a one or two line reply that simply restates "DNA is complex so it was created."?
Here it is, click the button at your own peril:
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: DNA is proof that living systems are designed and the fine tuning of the universe is proof that the entire universe is designed.
Two things you're asserting right off the bat.
However, I've seen arguments that DNA is the successor of a simpler self-replicating, protein chain prototype. You have the RNA. The RNA itself is almost as complex as DNA, so it's to be expected that some even simpler form pre-dated it. And what are the basic features of such a form? Self-replicating and protein prototype. Self-replicating is something that one can easily find in dumb rocks, like crystals. Proteins require amino-acids, something that, some claim, could be found in early Earth oceans. Crystals could have been growing near an amino-acid rich area and those amino-acids reassembled within the crystal, in a self-replicating pattern, sustained by those crystals.
I have no way of proving that things happened like this... but it is plausible. An immense amount of mindless trial and error would eventually lead to an fully organic self-replicating molecule, no crystal needed as scaffolding. And, nowadays, ens after that primitive scaffold was shed aside, you see it nowhere in use and end up unable to reason how such a biological molecule could have become what it is.
Irreducible complexity is nothing more than your ignorance as to the previous stages of the organism you see nowadays. An organism very likely much more efficient than the previous versions of it and thus more successful, leading to the former version's extinction. But you have no access to such information, nowadays... so you get stuck.
And when a simple mind gets stuck, it lashes out trying to invent a solution.
God... This is called the God-of-the-gaps. Any gap in knowledge is filled with a god that fits neatly into it.
Fine tuning... All constants used in Physics represent an underlying ignorance by the physicists as to what is really going on.
The Cosmological constant, the Boltzman constant, the Plank constant, etc, etc, etc... represent some proportionality between one quantity and another. A proportionality that is, you'll understand, completely man-made. The relation between mass, distance and the force of gravity in Newtons gives us the gravitational constant.
But the speed of light... that one connects energy and mass... and what do scientists take out of the old E=mc2? Energy is the same as mass. That's it. Energy is mass. The constant doesn't really matter. Whether it's 1, 2, 1 million or 3e9, it's all the same.
So, it's all the same... There's no fine tuning.
I find it incredible how anyone could come up with a probability for each of the classical constants... If one assumes a continuum on which they could land, then the odds of them being exactly as they are essentially ZERO, or 1 divided by infinity. Any number larger than ZERO has to be wrong.
Bottom line, none of these are proof that anything in the Universe is designed.
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: DNA is an extremely highly specified and complex code which provides the instructions for a nano-manufacturing plant to build proteins for living cells. Proteins have a wide range of function in the cell; such as, building components of the cell to harvesting energy.
Isn't it great to behold after so many generations of adaptation and survival?
How wonderful would it have been to witness it all unravel!
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: There are complex molecular machines, like the bacteria flagellum, that are irreducibly complex, meaning if one part is removed or damaged in the system then the system is either degraded or fails to function.
One example is the bacteria flagellum which is a molecular machine that operates like an outboard motor complete with a propeller, drive shaft, and u-joints. It is said to be the most efficient motor in the universe as it can rotate at 100,000 RPM and stop on a dime and reverse direction in a quarter turn.
There are other like the Laryngeal nerve that has a very short path in fish.... but does some looping in mammals. A looping that is suspiciously due to the path it had in those fish... almost as if there had been an evolution that gradually stretched that nerve and looped it, as it had no notion of how to build it the easy way around.
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: These machines in the cells of living systems are built part by part in a nano-manufacturing plant using the code inside the DNA molecule. There are codes instructing the machine to start assembling parts in specific orders and instructing when to stop the assembly. There are spell checker type enzymes searching and correcting errors in the code, there is copying and transporting of the code. DNA has nested coding. DNA has a files within folders hierarchical structure. A senior software engineer with Microsoft once said DNA follows design strategies similar to those used by their software programmers but one far more advanced than they have been able to devise.
It's amazing what tinkering here and there over time can accomplish!
Do you remember the assembly line that put together the Ford model T? Nowadays, the Tesla model S' is quite a deal more intricate and complex than that one, isn't it?
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: The specific genetic instructions to build a protein in even the simplest one celled organism would fill hundreds of pages of printed text.
Depends on the size of the page, I guess.
I'm sure it takes less than a chapter on a college biology textbook.
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: Approximately 3 percent of DNA encodes protein sequences and over 85 percent is noncoding DNA. Noncoding DNA transcribes into functional non-coding RNA molecules (like transfer RNA, ribosomal RNA, and regulator RNAs). Other functions of noncoding DNA include transcriptional and translational regulation of protein-coding sequences, scaffold attachment regions, origins of DNA replication, centormeters and telomeres. This is no longer referred to as "junk DNA." That was an old term. The noncoding DNA is more like the operating system.
Cool.
I don't see how this fits into your "argument", but there's cool stuff in there.
(May 8, 2018 at 4:23 pm)CDF47 Wrote: DNA proves the design of living systems. The fine-tuning of the universe proves the design of the universe.
Isn't this just repetition of the first sentence?
That's how advertisers operate, by repeating the same "brute fact" over and over again... eventually, people see it as trustworthy, just because they were exposed to it lots of times and it becomes familiar.
Using known advertisement techniques is no way to ever win an intellectual argument.
Sure, it works well on masses of people... but not on those who are used to these things.
Quote:DNA can be considered as a modified form of RNA, since the “normal” ribose sugar in RNA is reduced into deoxyribose in DNA, whereas the “simple” base uracil is methylated into thymidine. In modern cells, the DNA precursors (the four deoxyribonucleoties, dNTPs) are produced by reduction of ribonucleotides di- or triphosphate by ribonucleotide reductases (fig. 1). The synthesis of DNA building blocks from RNA precursors is a major argument in favor of RNA preceding DNA in evolution.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
Quote:Did you just respond to my response by copy-pasting your original post? ><
Evidently this is a bad habit with this guy.
This guy is a bad habit.
Similar as it is to many religious fanatics, to the OP reality as he perceive it doesn’t have any independent existence on which he could silently stake anything of importance. He perceive perhaps subconsciously that this reality would be completely hallow and his self worth would thereby remain lacking if he can’t browbeat other people into accepting it as well.
So independently of his lack of good arguments, the fact that he keeps repeating this is itself evidence of his own self deception and inner dishonesty.
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