DNA Proves Existence of a Designer

[Everena]

Yes tautological and it absolutely requires an intelligent agent.

Tautological and it can't possibly be otherwise, so no designer necessary. That doesn't mean there isn't one, just that one isn't needed to explain why there is not more life that can be supported by the available food. Any excess dies, because there isn't enough food.

The question is why is there food on this planet for the 7.8 million different species of conscious life? I understand that it is needed to sustain life. I am asking why it exists on our planet at all? Are you claiming food and herbs used as medicine and what we derive our medicines from are just here because we are lucky?

[CarveTheFive]

Fritos are considered junk food.

[The Grand Nudger]

Dicks, donuts, and dayquil....therefore meat fairy.

[Gwaithmir]

If this fucking thread drags on for a thousand pages I'm changing my avatar.

(Sigh!)

[Mystic]

Tautological and it can't possibly be otherwise, so no designer necessary. That doesn't mean there isn't one, just that one isn't needed to explain why there is not more life that can be supported by the available food. Any excess dies, because there isn't enough food.

The question is why is there food on this planet for the 7.8 million different species of conscious life? I understand that it is needed to sustain life. I am asking why it exists on our planet at all? Are you claiming food and herbs used as medicine and what we derive our medicines from are just here because we are lucky?

I formed this argument before in my Deist days. I phrased it as in one coincidence you are lucky. Another, ok. Another, ok. But when a lot begin to line up, and it's up to people to see how much line up, it becomes absurd to say we are lucky.  

Win one lotto ticket fine... sure the fine turning could be coincidence. It's the initial thing. But when things are all lining up in your favor, it becomes absurd to see it as all coincidences.

But don't hold your breathe for them to accept this or for them to start counting coincidences.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's nice, but since no one is telling either of you that luck is the explanation...it seems pointless. You're arguing with yourselves, not atheism.

[Everena]

Everena: Yes, chemistry that could only ever possibly come to be with an intelligent driving force.

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What you have done here, is you have got to a complex part (chemistry) and because you cannot explain it, you use the easy escape hatch of 'Goddidit' 

It's not just you don't know, but that you don't wish to know or understand. 

You don't want to learn, you want to prove that you're right and everyone else is wrong (you are currently failing spectacularly). 

Well, today is not your day.

Everena: And that is still better than pretending it all just magically appeared, as you do.

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Now i am not a doctor or neuroscientist, but claiming that peristalsis or heart rate being “soul indirect manifestations” seem not only questionable but factually wrong. I would like to read what peers noted in a peer review or have any experts here comment this.

I would also like to add that, as far as i undestood SCIRP is a open access online journal. From previous discusisons at TTA i know that those "free" or "for profit" journals suffer from the burden to be able to sustain themselves, namely by publishing sometimes questinable studies and having questionable reviews, because if they have no business, theyll be ou tof business soon.

Everena: I read the entire article. It is just a hypothesis from neuroscience, and nothing more. My goodness if we could actually prove the soul exists, most of the world would commit suicide.

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That's nice, but since no one is telling either of you that luck is the explanation...it seems pointless.  You're arguing with yourselves, not atheism.

Everena: It is luck or it is God genius. Are you on drugs or something?

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Kudos on using the quote function correctly. We have designed machines that can learn from their environment, with intelligence comparable to an ant's. You have stated that ants are intelligent.

Everena: No they are not comparable to an ant. They are programmed by conscious and intelligent people or they would do nothing.

Why is that a distinction for you, when you believe that conscious and intelligent people were designed to have the capabilities that they do?

Only our flesh was designed. Our higher selvess/souls always have been and always will be, just like God.  Our souls are the conscious, intelligent, emotional part of us that is just inhabiting this flesh.

Everena: Bacteria does not have intelligence. It is comparable to plant life, not conscious life and there are many important distinctions. This is from an earlier post of mine when you were not here. This entire universe and everything in it is evidence of higher intelligence. How and why do we have consciousness? Science doesn't know the answer to that. And science does not even attempt to answer any of the whys of our existence. Like why do we exist at all? Science only attempts to discover and understand how an already existing and operating universe works. And food is evidence of God. Why do we have food for every fish, bird, insect, ... food for the approx 7.8 million different species of conscious life? Something like food being here, and being delicious and providing energy and nutrients cannot just be written off to chance or luck. Also, it is statistically impossible for all the functions of the human body to have evolved without some intelligent force underlying it all. Additionally, why would we even have a sex drive or a will to live? Just because of nothing and for no reason? How would nothingness care if our species survived? Also, we have discovered approx 200 billion different galaxies. Do you really think humans are the highest form of intelligence in 200 billion galaxies? Add all that to a planet with a enormous amount of useful materials and resources and it becomes very evident that higher intelligence must exist.

'Conscious' and 'intelligent' are two different things. Bacteria and plants and viruses and certain machines are capable of sensing and acting on stimuli, a basic form of intelligence. The intelligence of an ant is similar, just more advanced. I never claimed they were conscious.

Everena: It's a stretch to call it "intelligence for germs or plants. More likely the environment is acting on them. And no, again, there are no intelligent machines. Machines are programmed by people or they do nothing.

[The Grand Nudger]

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That's nice, but since no one is telling either of you that luck is the explanation...it seems pointless.  You're arguing with yourselves, not atheism.

Everena: It is luck or it is God genius. Are you on drugs or something?

Somehow, I doubt that you've managed to plumb the depths of possibility or reality with such a ridiculous assertion.  You could always ask, huh?

Nothin lucky about donuts and dayquil...that shit takes work. I guess the matter of whether or not having a dick is a lucky coincidence is a matter of opinion..but I'm attached to mine, so...meh.

[Anomalocaris]

What you have done here, is you have got to a complex part (chemistry) and because you cannot explain it, you use the easy escape hatch of 'Goddidit' 

It's not just you don't know, but that you don't wish to know or understand. 

You don't want to learn, you want to prove that you're right and everyone else is wrong (you are currently failing spectacularly). 

Well, today is not your day.

Everena: And that is still better than pretending it all just magically appeared, as you do.

---

Now i am not a doctor or neuroscientist, but claiming that peristalsis or heart rate being “soul indirect manifestations” seem not only questionable but factually wrong. I would like to read what peers noted in a peer review or have any experts here comment this.

I would also like to add that, as far as i undestood SCIRP is a open access online journal. From previous discusisons at TTA i know that those "free" or "for profit" journals suffer from the burden to be able to sustain themselves, namely by publishing sometimes questinable studies and having questionable reviews, because if they have no business, theyll be ou tof business soon.

Everena: I read the entire article. It is just a hypothesis from neuroscience, and nothing more. My goodness if we could actually prove the soul exists, most of the world would commit suicide.

---

That's nice, but since no one is telling either of you that luck is the explanation...it seems pointless.  You're arguing with yourselves, not atheism.

Everena: It is luck or it is God genius. Are you on drugs or something?

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Kudos on using the quote function correctly. We have designed machines that can learn from their environment, with intelligence comparable to an ant's. You have stated that ants are intelligent.

Treating everyone you talk to as a genius, and yourself as a idiot, would be the only good start possible for you.

[TwoKnives99]

What you have done here, is you have got to a complex part (chemistry) and because you cannot explain it, you use the easy escape hatch of 'Goddidit' 

It's not just you don't know, but that you don't wish to know or understand. 

You don't want to learn, you want to prove that you're right and everyone else is wrong (you are currently failing spectacularly). 

Well, today is not your day.

Everena: And that is still better than pretending it all just magically appeared, as you do.

You argue God designed the Universe as He is the only being capable of such a feat.

How did the Universe come into being? I don't think it magically appeared. Let me introduce to the Big Bang Theory. 

According to this theory, our universe sprang into existence as a singularity around 13.7 billion years ago. Singularities are thought to exist at the core of black holes. Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang"), expanded and cooled, going from very, very small and very, very hot, to the size and temperature of our current universe. It continues to expand and cool to this day.

I don't know how the singularity came to be. But unlike you, I do not assume it is the handiwork of a God you haven't proven the existence of. 

Also, as for chemistry, By 1000 BC, civilizations used technologies that would eventually form the basis of the various branches of chemistry. Examples include extracting metals from ores, making pottery and glazes, fermenting beer and wine, extracting chemicals from plants for medicine and perfume, rendering fat into soap, making glass, and making alloys like bronze. For a while, there was no distinction between chemistry and its protoscience, alchemy, but in 1661, Robert Boyle published The Sceptical Chymist, which made a clear distinction between alchemy and chemistry. 

Chemistry is considered to have become an established science with the work of Antoine Lavoisier, who developed the law of conservation of mass. 

How did those early civilisations learn to make soap, glass and extract metals?. Not a blooming clue. But once again, I do not assume it is the handiwork of a God you haven't proven the existence of.