Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread

[brewer]

I count at least 3 times so far. No me, us.

I don't think I've said it much outside the Christian-only thread, in which I'm speaking to the other participants.

Regardless...what's it to you?

Absolutely nothing. Just wondering about motive.

[Edwardo Piet]

So the point is that Neo can learn from his behavior when we punish him just as she did from being punished for trolling... but that does not mean she was punished or that Neo should be punished because he deserves it, in a retributive way. Just that it's the best way to discourage him being a cunt in future: consequentalist punishment.

..and they call Christians judgmental and patronizing.

You are clearly judgmental and patronizing. I'm just objectively right. There's a difference. What I said (I'm sure Mathilda will agree, as her her kudos appears to indicate) does appear to have been Mathilda's point so I was completely right in what I said. What am I saying there? Look what I was actually saying: That that was the point of Mathilda's post and the point that CL missed. I do appear to be correct. That was indeed Mathilda's point. So merely calling me judgmental and patronizing is completely irrelevant and dismissive of--and dodging--my actual point.

Wanna see judgemental and patronizing? Take a look at this shit you said:

Our participation on AF is not at all like going into places where sin and darkness dwell in ignorance. Those are people potentially yearning for hope who have not yet heard the Gospel. AF members do not yearn for hope. The Light dwells in the darkness and the darkness knew it not. This lot have put blankets of falsity over their windows having already closed their eyes to truth.

@ Catholic_Lady – you suggest that exposing yourself to the opinions and ideas on AF provides insight into the thoughts and feeling of other atheists with whom you interact elsewhere online or in real life. You also write about a desire to “engage with people of differing views”. But merely gaining insight has only personal value unless it in some way brings glory to God or builds the Kingdom. I see knowledge as a means to an end, not an end unto itself. As such, if you have no ambitions beyond educating yourself such as overcoming objections of non-believers so they may come to Christ or strengthening your faith to be more effective in other missions?

For me, learning about atheism is a non-issue. As a former atheist, I already had extensive knowledge of atheism as expressed by the major philosophers such as Russell, Nietzsche, and Sartre. The majority of AF atheists are New Atheist groupies who spit out one-liners the way candy pops out of Pez heads.

The crucial and key difference being that you're also spouting superstitious, religious and above all incorrect bullshit whereas I am not. If what you were saying was actually correct then dismissing it as 'judgemental and patronizing' would be an irrelevant dodge on my part (just as it's irrelevant when you say it to me as a way to completely ignore the absolutely correct point about consequentialist versus retributivist punishment that I was making in my agreement with Mathilda's point).

The point is in my case I'm making a correct differentiation between two versions of punishment and helping illustrate Mathlida's point in my own way... but in your case it's just a hyperignorant religious rant about atheists and a completely baseless declaration that we are beyond hope (your own bullshit magic book is not a base or foundation for your bullshit declaration).

You do absolutely nothing to support your Christian belief but you do offer insight into exactly why you are so deluded: You basically admitted that you are full of confirmation bias... so much so that you're only interested in knowledge that supports Christianity (which you fucking said right there in that post... that you don't seek knowledge for its own sake but merely to bolster what you already believe!!! [And please nobody mistake this for anger on my part I'm chill as fuck and just emphazing how full of crap Neo is]), which completely shuts your eyes to any arguments or evidence to the contrary. You start with your bullshit presupposition that, as Min would say, a dead Jew on a stick is here to save us all... and you are too busy genuinely being condescending in a hyperignorant way about your own misconceptions of atheism to actually ever have even the slightest chance of becoming aware of your own superstitious bullshit ignorance. It wouldn't be condescending if you weren't so completely full of shit and the intellectual dishonesty that is your admission of total confirmation bias with regards to your own entire bullshit Christian worldview.

[I_am_not_mafia]

@ Mathilda Okay fuck it I'll just let Schopenhauer speak for the both of us on what I think you are trying to say by "It's not punishment it's cause and effect" (although Schopenhauer would make the same point, I think, by distinguishing punishment from revenge).

Hammy we're in complete agreement about this.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yep.

[Whateverist]

I've never had major issues with this forum, but even I agree with your assessment of TTA.  I was banned from there on bogus charges.  Eventually, I got around to creating a new account that they still haven't associated with me, but I no longer post over there.  TTA has seriously gone downhill.

the big thing is I did not even change my name from 2008 to 2016, same name same sunflower same everything. I think they let me in because they had a few new guys who were supposed to be faith crushing monsters, but after being spanked (while Mathilda claimed a Clinton-esque victory) with no end in sight, they just pulled the plug. They are strictly atheist only like most Christian forums are Christian only so as to protect the indoctrinated from thinking outside the box they represent.

When I first joined here there seemed to be a large and vocal group of atheists who felt their mission here was to drive back the theists.  It was never the stated position of this site, quite the opposite really.  But the prevailing ethos was one of defending the atheists only club.  I think that has changed, even though that sentiment of it being our-place is still present.  I'd prefer it to be our place only for those who wish to create a zone of mutual respect and honest discussion.

I do understand the reason that TTA site is anti-preaching.  I wouldn't want to see this place peopled with missionaries making non-stop sales pitches while blowing off any attempt at real discussion either.  But where should the line be drawn and how do you communicate that?

Personally I prefer there to be an atmosphere of mutual respect.  I don't think it is pathological for theists to hold the beliefs they do even though I don't share them.  It is a question for anthropology to figure out how we can have such different world views.  World views aren't just right or wrong they also shape a person and their experience.

So I started that fuming thread about ranking theists on their hypocrisy level because I was angry at Neo.  Enraged really.  I was personally insulted by his insistence on conducting a matter of fact discussion with the other theists regarding what they should be doing here and in the rest of their lives to further a xtian agenda.  It's like admitting that his every word and interaction is or should be a stratagem for undermining my world view.  There is no mutual respect in such a stance and I will not endure the company of anyone like that.  I don't like it when it comes from atheists and I sure won't waste another word on someone who won't extend me the same respect and curtesy I do them.

[Pat Mustard]

Neo wrote: 

Psalm 1 advises us to not associate around with people who, by adopting the title of atheist, have already signaled their intentional rejection of belief. (I do not believe their self-delusion that an atheist simply lacks belief.) 

 
and:

The majority of AF atheists are New Atheist groupies who spit out one-liners the way candy pops out of Pez heads. 

And some people wonder why some atheists go on the defensive. It's because crap like that is said that generalizes atheists. We shouldn't have to stay silent or keep our opinions to ourselves. Theists want to come in here and say they don't feel like they are treated fairly or they can't debate properly with atheists because of insults and shit slinging coming from atheists, but when they show us that they are not capable of playing by their own rules, they make it difficult to play nice in return. 

Please don't ask us to give what you aren't will to give in the first place. Knowing that we can't respond directly on that thread because atheists don't have permission, is really bullshit. The two quotes above don't even address the actual question being asked of Christians. It's just another way for Neo to get a jab in while feeling superior and untouchable in the process. 

Sorry but those comments should be dealt with by a moderator because they don't stick to the actual debate topic and are in no way civilized comments.

Bolded part: That was the whole point of the "debate", and frankly too the point of CL "civility" area. They need an area where their accusations and lies go unpunished or unanswered so they are going to do everything they can to make it hallen.

---

If anyone is a role model for how not to behave on forums, and how not to think about atheists, it has to be Chad/Neo. I hope the other Christians put him straight on some of the nonsense he's putting out there.

That is going to be the big question going forward in that thread.  Will the other Christians, particularly CL, be willing to openly disagree with him?  Or is this just gonna play out as an, ‘it’s us against them’, circle jerk?

It'd be a first gor CL to disagree with Wooters. Every time he picks a fight she defends him, every time he says something hateful about atheism or atheists she kudos' the post.

She's very much in the Cora Sherlock Opus Dei mould, superficially nice but when you start listening and digging you find she holds to quite horrific views.

[Edwardo Piet]

It's great to see Neo and his pseudo-intellectual[dishonesty]ism getting completely fucking schooled by almost nothing but CL's pure sincerity alone:

Neo, I think I can agree with you that being on this forum doesn't "glorify God". [*] But I don't think it offends God, either. [*]

I will have to disagree that there's anything wrong in associating with atheists, and I wouldn't compare them to dirt. They are still people, and every person (well, most people at least), has something to offer and something we can learn from. I don't agree with dismissing people simply because they are atheist.

He got his completely smarmy totally overtly non-agendaless and utterly disingenuous ass fucking kicked right all the way down from his high fucking unicorn (it's like a high horse only more hyperdelusional) and she didn't seem to have to even fucking try.

[*]We have a conception of the gods, says Epicurus, as supremely blessed and happy beings. Troubling oneself about the miseries of the world, or trying to administer the world, would be inconsistent with a life of tranquility, says Epicurus, so the gods have no concern for us. In fact, they are unaware of our existence, and live eternally in the intermundia, the space between the cosmoi. For Epicurus, the gods function mainly as ethical ideals, whose lives we can strive to emulate, but whose wrath we need not fear.

...so if God existed why would a bunch of atheists on a website offend him, the great almighty? If God exists surely Neo has insulted him (despite the fact that God would not take offence if he was worthy at all of being called God).*

[Catholic_Lady]

Neo wrote: 

 
and:


And some people wonder why some atheists go on the defensive. It's because crap like that is said that generalizes atheists. We shouldn't have to stay silent or keep our opinions to ourselves. Theists want to come in here and say they don't feel like they are treated fairly or they can't debate properly with atheists because of insults and shit slinging coming from atheists, but when they show us that they are not capable of playing by their own rules, they make it difficult to play nice in return. 

Please don't ask us to give what you aren't will to give in the first place. Knowing that we can't respond directly on that thread because atheists don't have permission, is really bullshit. The two quotes above don't even address the actual question being asked of Christians. It's just another way for Neo to get a jab in while feeling superior and untouchable in the process. 

Sorry but those comments should be dealt with by a moderator because they don't stick to the actual debate topic and are in no way civilized comments.

Bolded part: That was the whole point of the "debate", and frankly too the point of CL "civility" area. They need an area where their accusations and lies go unpunished or unanswered so they are going to do everything they can to make it hallen.

---

That is going to be the big question going forward in that thread.  Will the other Christians, particularly CL, be willing to openly disagree with him?  Or is this just gonna play out as an, ‘it’s us against them’, circle jerk?

It'd be a first gor CL to disagree with Wooters.  Every time he picks a fight she defends him, every time he says something hateful about atheism or atheists she kudos' the post.

She's very much in the Cora Sherlock Opus Dei mould, superficially nice but when you start listening and digging you find she holds to quite horrific views.

1. Lol.

2. I take it you're not going to answer my question, so let me ask you again then. What "horrific, fundamentalist views" do I have? Particularly, that make me more fundamentalist than the group of nuns, like you claimed? You're always claiming I have them, but never stated what they are. I'd be delighted to know, my gorgeous love! Proof! Proof I say!

[Edwardo Piet]

Bolded part: That was the whole point of the "debate", and frankly too the point of CL "civility" area. They need an area where their accusations and lies go unpunished or unanswered so they are going to do everything they can to make it hallen.

---

It'd be a first gor CL to disagree with Wooters.  Every time he picks a fight she defends him, every time he says something hateful about atheism or atheists she kudos' the post.

She's very much in the Cora Sherlock Opus Dei mould, superficially nice but when you start listening and digging you find she holds to quite horrific views.

1. Lol.

2. I take it you're not going to answer my question, so let me ask you again then. What "horrific, fundamentalist views" do I have? Particularly, that make me more fundamentalist than the group of nuns, like you claimed? I'd be delighted to know, my gorgeous love!

I think some of the basic tenants of Catholicism are horrific. I think being anti-condom and anti-abortion are both highly immoral positions. But I would never suggest you were anything but a lovely person with sincere views and I certainly wouldn't consider your niceness superficial. You probably think my pro-abortion stance is highly immoral but that's not the same thing as thinking that I'm an immoral person. And, likewise, I can think you hold highly immoral or 'horrific' views without me thinking that makes you anything close to an immoral or horrific person... in fact I think quite the opposite. You're a good person. I don't think Neo is though. The key difference is intentions.

It seems all about the agenda for Neo, from my perspective. I know we disagree on that and you seem to think he's a good person and sincere--although feel free to change your mind on that one!--but all I can say is: good on you for telling him off for comparing the AF atheists to dirt. That thread was very nice and respectable until he showed up, IMO. Even Drich, the true fundamentalist in the discussion, did a better job of being decent than Neo did. How embarrassing for him to do worse than Drich.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't want to talk about abortion, but if that's what he was referring to, I can guarantee that every single one of those nuns is just as against it as I am. So yeah, I have no idea what bullshit he's spewing about lol.