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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 3:38 pm
And ambiguous tangent having nothing to do with blindness being attributed to dark magic.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 3:39 pm
^be patient... let me elaborate only getting started.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 3:39 pm
No, at this point you're just preaching. Address the points that people are raising.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 3:41 pm
(May 7, 2018 at 3:39 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: No, at this point you're just preaching. Address the points that people are raising.
You are going to have let me form the case before I started debating it. It's like a teacher beginning to talk and everyone interrupts and doesn't let them explain.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 3:46 pm
Yes, yes...we know...... spirits and sorcerers. At least retrograde theocracies take this existential threat seriously, and execute a witch every now and again.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 3:55 pm
The next chapter (chapter 3) starts with an important dialogue while it reminds that holy books were revealed as a guidance in the past, in than goes straight to the heart of the start of all divisions.
Verse 3:7 severely condemns those who follow that which is unclear of the Quran and praises those who follow what is clear from it. In other verses, it says it's all clear signs in the hearts of those given knowledge and many verses show it's a clear book.
The problem then is the unclear ambiguities comes when people try to interpret rather then understand the Quran. That is why it's only those who possess understanding who remember, because they sought to understand as opposed to impose their opinion on the holy book.
The Quran however doesn't stop there. It goes again to the heart of the issue. As no doubt clarification is needed with respect to dialogue of Talut and Aaron's family, the Quran, says "Verily God chose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of Imran above the worlds. Offspring, some of it from some..."
In then mentions Mariam and Isa (Jesus) and Zakariya and Yahya...
What does the family of Imran really mean? Does it included Imran's predecessors all the way back to Moses and Aaron, or is a new family.... What clarifies it to be one family more then anything is the very reminder of the family of Abraham. The family of Jacob later mentioned in Quran is for example exactly the family of Abraham.
And what clarifies this is the line "offspring some of it from some".
And although Jesus and Yahya (John) were cousins, we see Lut and Abraham were cousins, so this is not the first time cousins are integrated into one cause and mission.
And we see the Quran talks about in respect of this "rope from God and rope from humans" and emphasizes "hold on to God's rope".
In the past the Torah was coupled with Prophets and Messengers, who were navigating Captains.
The Surah reminds of the event of mubahila and also warns people to not go on their backs if Mohammad is killed or dies.... The Surah has a compassionate severe warning not to turn on our backs like many nations did after their founding Messengers.
The Quran is however, only getting started with this subject.
The chosen family of Imran which is the family of Aaron and Moses, was a means to hold on to the true interpretation of the Torah.
Why did they not succeed. It's because of the Anti-Christ authority, that is the religious clergy who took on this mantle without proof, in which the very same Surah warns humans to not take such people as idols.
It will go into this talk with more detail in the next Surah, and we will see the introduction of the word "Possessors of the Authority" (Ulil-Amr) from the believers.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 4:09 pm
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 4:13 pm
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2018 at 4:59 pm by Mystic.)
Along with the emphasis that God is the Master of the Authority and gives to whom it pleases and negates it from who he pleases, which goes back to the talk of Talut, the Surah has a great emphasis on the authority of the chosen families.
What is meant by 'family' here and what are they bound by.
The next Surah goes to the heart of the issue again..
It reminds that every people have a witness from them selves, and the goes on to the dialogue of clergy claiming authority and purity while they have no right to either claim, and God attributes purity to who he pleases and manifests who he pleases as pure.
And this clergy believed themselves in the dark magic and the false idol, and were saying these are more guided then a certain people who were believers.
The Quran then emphasizes on a huge issue, can such people have a share of an authority? As it pertained to Jews and Christians and their clergy disputing the authority of Mohammad, it reminded them: "Or do they envy the humans for what God has given them out of his grace? So we gave the family of Abraham, the book and wisdom, and we gave them a great authority(mulk). So of them is who believed in it and of them is who turned away from it...".
And in this dialogue it reminds true authority is something God gives to pure holy souls like the household of Abraham. If you read the Torah, there is much talk of envy with respect to the chosen Prophets from the offspring of Abraham.
And so it's reminding them of something they hold true and trying to make them be consistent.
In this warning, and in this dialogue, it emphasizes for believers "O you who believe obey God and obey the Messenger and those Possessors of the Authority from you so if you dispute in a thing, refer it to God and the Messenger....".
And in fact, how to refer disputes back to God and the Messenger is the biggest dispute in Islam and the heart of it lies in those taken as Authorities pertaining to the religion.
And it's clear from the comparison to the household of Abraham, iterating at this point, that the true holders of the Authority are the chosen family of Mohammad.
The grace needed to believed in, and the signs of God in that respect, refers to their role as Leaders to God.
The Quran is not done but then emphasizes that all Messengers were sent to be obeyed by God's permission, and then goes on to a dialogue of Moses being sent with a clear authority, and the divisions that occurred in his nation despite the clear authority he was given which was to be succeeded by chosen ones.
The Quran is however not done with this topic.
We will see how the next Surah goes back to this as well. Obedience was owed to the Messengers in the children of Israel after Moses, but in the name of obeying Moses, they disobeyed the Messengers and followed clergy instead.
The Quran however again is only getting started with this subject.
Some questions remain -> what if people begin to divide after and disagree who formed the family of Mohammad. Aside from that, again, is who has right to authority of the religion and what will be the proof.
Suratal Maeeda, iterating with the flow of the Surahs, gives tranquility to believers in verse 5:12.
"And indeed we took the covenant of the children of Israel and raised from them Twelve Captains..." and another verse emphasizes in the same Surah interpreting Quran by Quran and leaving no ambiguity "And indeed we took the covenant of the children of Israel and raised from them Messengers....".
The word "Captain" is important, and we will see the Quran will begin with a theme pertaining to ships and the path as well.
The number is twelve. And so the question remains, did anyone aside from these twelve have authority, did the Jews and Christians collectively have an authority regarding the holy books sent to them.
The Quran in this dialogue, that the revelations were sent to judge and rule humans and who they were sent to, says "O you who believe do not take the Jews and Christians as authorities, some of them are authorities over others...." and later on says "Do not take those as authorities who have taken the religion as vanity and play thing from those given the book before you...." and in the middle of that said "Your Master is only God and the Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up the connection and give alms (even) while they bow."
The topic is not about allies or friendship, in which other verses show is not disallowed for non-Muslims anyways, but has been on topic of the judgement of revelation and rule.
As there was twelve Captains to navigate after Moses, the phrase of 5:55 obviously goes back to that, and is saying do not take aside from these as Authority anyone.
Your Master which is singular is to emphasize that the authority here is one and there is no disunity as opposed to the Christians and Jews which had diverging authorities, "some of them are authorities over others".
And that is because they were playful and trifled with an authority that doesn't belong to them.
In this regard, it becomes manifest, that "while they bow" is signified by some event...and the event reported in the ahadith refers to when Imam Ali (as) was the only one in a Masjid to give alms while praying and bowing in prayer, his ring, to a poor person who asked other companions but they didn't respond.
This signified a heightened understanding of Islam in Ali (as) and that he had permission to do what he did, while the others didn't.
And aside from that, it manifests a spiritual charity they give while they bow, but that's a different topic. And so the question of their number is of course manifest that it's twelve.
And while we are all to help command to good and help one another to righteousness, as the beginning of the Surah emphasizes on, we are not to take the mantle of authority which belongs to only twelve Captains after the founding Captain and Navigator to justice, the Messenger.
Two verses which can be proven to be also about this subject is the one about perfecting the religion and completing it as well the command to convey something that without the message would not have been conveyed.
And it's about the event of Ghadeer, and how Ghadeer is so emphasized in this Surah, while not explicitly mentioned, is amazing.
There is much important dialogue I missed in the Surah that pertained to the subject, but I'm trying to be brief.
The next Surah of course, will emphasize on something important pertaining to this subject, and will be the first time Elyas (Elijah) is introduced by name as well the first time we come across the issue of the wage of the Prophet.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 5:18 pm
Yeeeah... This is just preaching.
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RE: Ahlulbayt in Quran and blindness to them is best explained by dark magic.
May 7, 2018 at 5:28 pm
(May 7, 2018 at 5:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Yeeeah... This is just preaching.
If you read the Quran like that, you will never understand it's arguments. It will always seem like it's just preaching.
Rather sad when a person cannot even be guided by his Creator because of conditions they make out of conjecture.
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