What is your problem with Islam? Think about it

[Edwardo Piet]

It's hilarious that you now claim to not be a 9/11 truther after you said that American provided the "Political cover".

Do you deny that the 9/11 suicide bombers were extremist Islamists?

[Catholic_Lady]

There are many different ways to interpret the Koran and many different flavors of Islam.

Sam Harris did a great bit on this false idea that interpretations for such books are as so wide open:





It's hilarious when people think that it's a reasonable interpretation of a book from the dark ages to insist that lines like "Kill the unbelievers" are metaphors. It's beyond cherry-picking it's full-blown mental gymnastics. Some parts are very, very, very, very clearly literal.

If someone is a devout Muslim who is practicing his religion peacefully, then Islam is being practiced peacefully lol. Obviously.

That begs the question as they aren't actually a devout Muslim if they're not actually following their religion. This is the whole point. The extremists are the devout muslims.

Sure, maybe a partial Muslim if they're only following the bits they like. The bits that aren't violent towards nonbelievers and bigoted towards women, for example. So they're ignoring huge parts of their religion, basically.

People are free to interpret their holy book however they see fit, and to follow a faith based on that interpretation. If it is a faith that teaches love and morality, why should I have a problem with it?

[The Valkyrie]

The same problems I have with fundamentalust Christianity or Judaism.: it convinces some of its followers that those who don't hold the same beliefs are inferior and don't have the same rights or even deserve to live.

It create s hate and fanaticism in the minds of its adherents and holds back scientific and social progress. And, in many ways, it treats women as inferior.

[Catholic_Lady]

Same here but some religions are definitely worse than others.

I have one issue with all of them: They're all untrue.

But, extremist Jainism, for instance, is hardly on par with extremist Islam or Extremist Christianity. Some religions definitely cause more harm and do more damage than others.

I don't think all religions are the same; it's innate capacity that there are huge differences in the sentences of each religion, and the demands it asks from its followers.

Yeah, I agree with this. Saying all religious beliefs are the same is like saying all sets of values are the same. Or all sets of rules are the same. It makes no sense.

[Edwardo Piet]

People are free to interpret their holy book however they see fit, and to follow a faith based on that interpretation.

That's like claiming that someone who says 2+2=5 is free to claim to be a good mathematician.

The point is they are not following their religion completely if they ignore huge percentages of it.

Here's another video as you didn't address the last one:

If it is a faith that teaches love and morality, why should I have a problem with it?

The point is that it teaches very little love and morality and an awful lot of hate, violence and bigotry and they only avoid that by ignoring it.

They AREN'T following the religion fully unless they truly believe the horrible parts as well. That's my point. The extremist Muslims are the devout ones.

[Catholic_Lady]

People are free to interpret their holy book however they see fit, and to follow a faith based on that interpretation.

That's like claiming that someone who says 2+2=5 is free to claim to be a good mathematician.

The point is they are not following their religion completely if they ignore huge percentages of it.

Here's another video as you didn't address the last one:

If it is a faith that teaches love and morality, why should I have a problem with it?

The point is that it teaches very little love and morality and an awful lot of hate, violence and bigotry and they only avoid that by ignoring it.

They AREN'T following the religion fully unless they truly believe the horrible parts as well. That's my point. The extremist Muslims are the devout ones.

I don't know what to tell you. I am long time friends with a devout family of Muslims (follow all the rules, pray multiple times a day, etc), and they are good and decent people who established their good values from their Muslim faith.

[WinterHold]

And why is he ignoring my post where I accused him of being a 9/11 truther in order to ignore the very worst of his religion?

Oh well. I put his conspiracy theorist post in the Hall of Shame so that should do the trick. Hopefully. I put him on par with a holocaust denier if he's going to call 9/11 an inside job.Oh shit

Get over yourself. Your post wasn't worth the reply that's why I ignored it...
For 9/11 being an inside job; it was actually:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Ag...rorism_Act

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Correct as far as it goes, but I wasn't asked my problems with extremists.

Boru

I think there's two types of religious people: honest extremist nutjobs and hypocritical cherrypicking moderates. Neither are particularly dignified but at least the hypocrites do less harm. Although it is rather depressing that those who most honestly follow their (un)holy texts end up doing the most harm (it's not surprising considering what's in the texts). It comes back to that thread you made ages ago about whether motive makes a different to morality.

I like what A.C. Grayling has to say on the matter. Specifically his final point that he makes 53 seconds into the following video:

On the other hand, I believe there are 3 types of people:

1-Carbon-Copies with no personality
2-Evil douches with a personality of their own
3-Good people with a personality of their own

We swing between the three.

[Fake Messiah]

My problem with Islam is that is backward, totalitarian, patriarchal, like this for instance that's happening as I write this:

Egyptian Court Blocks Youtube for a Month Due to Controversial Muhammad Video

[WinterHold]

War
Bigotry
Oppression
Civil Unrest
Barbaric Morality

I could go on...

But what about these verses from the Quran, which contradicts the above?

Sura 60, The Quran:
( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

and

Sura 7, The Quran:
( 55 )   Call upon your Lord in humility and privately; indeed, He does not like transgressors.
( 56 )   And cause not corruption upon the earth after its reformation. And invoke Him in fear and aspiration. Indeed, the mercy of Allah is near to the doers of good.

[Edwardo Piet]

I don't know what to tell you. I am long time friends with a devout family of Muslims (follow all the rules, pray multiple times a day, etc), and they are good and decent people who established their good values from their Muslim faith.

How exactly do they follow all the rules if they're ignoring all the horrible ones?

They are indeed good and decent people and this is precisely because they do NOT establish their values from their Muslim faith. Moderate Islam, like moderate Christianity, is civilized because it is partially secularized. Like the video that I just posted said (you seem to have ignored that one too): If Christians, for example, truly followed the Bible they'd trust Christian exorcism of demons over modern secular medicine.

You seem to have an overly romanticized view of true Islam but I am not surprised because moderate Christians like yourself have to cherry pick the Bible almost as much as moderate Muslims have to cherry pick the Koran. And thank goodness that you do cherry pick it.