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Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
#21
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 10:54 am)henryp Wrote: "Vote for our guy, or you're a nazi!", I imagine, seems juvenile.

...and your labeling everything you don't like as extreme far left isn't?

We don't have an extreme far left in this country, at least not one that has any political power, and no, the Democratic Party isn't it.

Cry me a river. FWIW, I don't use the Nazi pejorative, but I'm happy to label people who support fascist polices as such.
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#22
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 26, 2018 at 10:52 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:
(June 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: He's all smiles now:

[Image: donald-trump-smiling-jan-16-18-getty-640x480.jpg]


Donald Trump Says ‘Red Wave’ Brewing, Not Blue Wave

I intend to keep this thread up every 30 days or so, until this November.  What do you all think??

Has he invited his friend Putin to invade?

Evidently they are going to have a summit between the two of them.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand. 
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work.  If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now.  Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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#23
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 1:02 pm)Cathooloo Wrote:
(June 27, 2018 at 10:54 am)henryp Wrote: "Vote for our guy, or you're a nazi!", I imagine, seems juvenile.

...and your labeling everything you don't like as extreme far left isn't?  

We don't have an extreme far left in this country, at least not one that has any political power, and no, the Democratic Party isn't it.

Cry me a river.  FWIW, I don't use the Nazi pejorative, but I'm happy to label people who support fascist polices as such.

Again, we are not at a point in political history to claim "That can't happen here."

I agree.

And when you have 50 former REPUBLICAN law agents warn of political scapegoating and where it can damage national and global stability, you cannot say it is partisan.

If the GOP were the party of Lincoln were now as it was back then, I'd be a republican. If the GOP were the party of Teddy as it was back then, I'd be a republican.

And it is a myth that democrats all love the USSR and Cuba. WE DONT! I hate one party states and theocracies which are simply religious one party states.

It isn't a "pejorative" at this point in history.

Trump has during his run and still is..

1. Attacking his own, McCain 

2. Vilifying the free press.

3. Vilifying his own intel

4. Scapegoating other nations and races and religions.

The same tactics any authoritarian uses.

If you don't want to use "Nazi" that is ok too, Stalin did it, and even China cracks down on dissent. 

Those steps I listed above are how one consolidates power and squashes dissent.

But Trump is literally using authoritarian tactics, lets not pretend only Nazis used authoritarian tactics. But they still did, so it is not a "pejorative".
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#24
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: He's all smiles now:

[Image: donald-trump-smiling-jan-16-18-getty-640x480.jpg]


Donald Trump Says ‘Red Wave’ Brewing, Not Blue Wave

I intend to keep this thread up every 30 days or so, until this November.  What do you all think??

Lol everyone laughed when I told them Trump would win the election. Please do keep this thread going it’ll be fun to see the salty tears.
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#25
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 1:56 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(June 26, 2018 at 9:08 pm)Jehanne Wrote: He's all smiles now:

[Image: donald-trump-smiling-jan-16-18-getty-640x480.jpg]


Donald Trump Says ‘Red Wave’ Brewing, Not Blue Wave

I intend to keep this thread up every 30 days or so, until this November.  What do you all think??

Lol everyone laughed when I told them Trump would win the election. Please do keep this thread going it’ll be fun to see the salty tears.

I will never find the tactic of heads of state using political scapegoating and vilification funny. But ridiculing him and condemning him is the right thing to do.

He is a vile piece of shit and he is not a republican vs democrat issue. He is behaving way beyond politics as normal. He has behaved and still is like  leader of a closed state. He is NOTHING like Lincoln or Teddy, or even McCain or Reagan.
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#26
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 10:27 am)Libertarian God Wrote:
(June 27, 2018 at 10:21 am)Aegon Wrote: If you were really honest you'd say you want mostly privitized health care because you want poor people to die. Or never have a chance at making something of themselves due to overwhelming medical debt. But rightwing libertarians live in the same fantasy world as communists.

I know that was harsh, but I don't respect that POV , sorry. I think it's pretty fucked up. Health care is a right and you'll never have a productive work force or efficient market with privitized health care. It's morally and fiscally irresponsible.

I'd consider myself left libertarian by the way. I only believe a free market that doesn't fuck over the individual is one with a generous social safety net, which includes a public health care system that anybody can opt into if they can't afford private. Thinking a society can function with such minimal government intervention is as unrealistic as thinking a communist regime will actually work like the Marxist literature claims it would.
Fair enough. However, could you explain to me why you believe it is a right? I am just wondering.

Because having to go bankrupt in order to stay alive is ridiculous, and dying from a preventable condition because one can't afford to see a physician who could catch it in time is straight-up dystopian. Your health and well-being, very obviously, are important. It has an incredible impact on your quality of life and ability to work. By claiming that health care should be mostly privatized and left up to the market, you are essentially saying that only a certain percentage of citizens deserve to be cared for. The private health care market sans government would not even be a health care system, given enough time it would just kill all lower middle class / poor people. Private insurance companies, when left unregulated, would surely refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions without raising their rates to affordable numbers, and can essentially only offer coverage to those with the least health complications and the most money -- because there is no money to be made in people with a history of cancer, diabetes, or basically any other condition that might mean that they'll need -- *gasp* -- HEALTH CARE. It's a market failure. Private free market health care is not actually health care in any way. 

Then there's the morally bankrupt argument: "If they worked hard, they would be able to afford insurance. I shouldn't have to pay for them." First of all, that's what insurance fucking is. You're paying for other people regardless of whether it's government or private. Secondly, it contributes to the American myth that has been pervasive since the 19th century that hard work will always = success and anybody in a bad situation deserves it because fuck 'em, lazy cunts. But this is so far removed from the truth it hurts. Many are working way more than 40 hours a week but their employers are not offering insurance, or, even worse, they're offering useless expensive junk plans that will do them no good when they really need it. But even then, even if it were true that those without insurance just "weren't working hard enough," who the hell are you to say who does and does not deserve to live, or to have any reasonable quality of life? You're making that choice? Another individual deserves to die or drown in debt because you judge them to be lazy? The "I got mine so fuck everybody else" attitude that's so common among conservatives and libertarians makes me sick. It's centuries of propaganda by our government that has conditioned us to attack one another instead of the people above us. We've been conditioned to accept the shitty situation we're in and call people "entitled" when they snap out of it and realize we could do better.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775760/


In 2009, this study found that uninsured people have a 40% increased risk of death, and lack of insurance was associated with an average of 44,789 deaths per year.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15318584

This 2004 study found that more than 13,000 persons between ages 55-64 die due to lack of coverage.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Medical bills are the number one cause for personal bankruptcy in the U.S.

In order to facilitate a productive society, the government has to be willing to foot the bill on health care. There are too many people unable to contribute to the economy because of medical debt, and there are too many people who cannot work because they are not healthy; greater, unrestricted access to health care services will lead to greater preventative care. I appreciated Obamacare for trying to increase the amount insured, but it was a bad system that eventually raised costs for most people. It proved that you cannot half-ass universal health care. The U.S. will inevitably provide government-funded health care for all just as so many other nations do for their people. I know it's going to happen, it's just up to us whether we want it in less than 10 years or 100. Democrats are slowly warming up to the idea, and I credit Sanders for the push. People have a fundamental misunderstanding of universal health care. It can cut costs for the entire population while also making us more productive as a society. 

For the record, I don't support single payer. It wouldn't work here. A secondary public option that can cover everybody in addition to private health care would be the most effective IMO.
[Image: nL4L1haz_Qo04rZMFtdpyd1OZgZf9NSnR9-7hAWT...dc2a24480e]
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#27
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government.

You don't have to believe in it, you just have to understand it is necessary. You want a non-corrupt police and judiciary? large government. You want paved roads? large government. You want a health service which has a near zero chance of killing you? large government. You want your kids to be able to count past ten without taking off their footwear? large government. You want air that you can breathe, water you can drink and food you can eat? large government. You don't want to be slave to a man richer and more powerful than you? large government.

What libertarian leaders won't tell you is that their type of government was tried before, between the 5th century CE and the first stirrings of the centralised state after the Black Death. That type of government nearly killed Europe.
The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
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#28
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 1:02 pm)Cathooloo Wrote:
(June 27, 2018 at 10:54 am)henryp Wrote: "Vote for our guy, or you're a nazi!", I imagine, seems juvenile.

...and your labeling everything you don't like as extreme far left isn't?  

We don't have an extreme far left in this country, at least not one that has any political power, and no, the Democratic Party isn't it.

Cry me a river.  FWIW, I don't use the Nazi pejorative, but I'm happy to label people who support fascist polices as such.

I'm talking about this from a 3rd person perspective.  Like a person watching a game analyzing strategy.  Calling someone a nazi, if it worked, would be a good strategy.  But I think it's a mistake because people outside of that bubble aren't going to buy into the hyperbole like the people inside the bubble are. 

If Tiz tells Min, these immigration camps are "Just like concentration camps", they're both going to agree wholeheartedly.  But when they take that message to some people who's identity doesn't hinge on this stuff, those people are going to say "Didn't they kill 6 million people in concentration camps?  I saw a picture of these kids watching the world cup.  Those seem very different."  

The point being, rather than presenting the truth, which many people would agree with, they present a lie that people will disagree with.  It's just shooting themselves in the foot for no reason.
--

As to labeling everything extreme far left, I don't think I've done that.  I hold a bunch of positions all over the political spectrum.  Oftentimes, I'm okay with various positions on the spectrum on the same issue.
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#29
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 11:18 am)Brian37 Wrote: Well, to be fair, I get a fucking lip twitch when I see fellow atheists sport the Che avatar. Che is the asshole who lead to Castro's Cuba which like the USSR was based on Marxist views. Marx was right in that workers should have a voice, but was dead wrong on how to do that. Ayn Rand economics is the opposite and just as fucked up. 

You do realise that the closest the USSR (or Cuba for that matter) came to being actually Marxist was by misusing his name?

(June 27, 2018 at 2:35 pm)Aegon Wrote: For the record, I don't support single payer. It wouldn't work here. A secondary public option that can cover everybody in addition to private health care would be the most effective IMO.

You should. We have the secondary public system here in Ireland and all it is is a system to allow the private insurers and hospitals to dump the hard cases and the patients they botch onto the public purse.

It ensures the ensurers and private hospitals (most owned by the rcc) gain all of the profits, while the state has to pay all of the costs.
The great appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise!
Big James
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#30
RE: Donald Trump predicting Red Wave!!
(June 27, 2018 at 12:58 pm)Cathooloo Wrote:
(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me Confused

Then quite frankly, you're part of the problem.

Yep, it is not enough to say, "I don't hate gays or blacks". I doesn't even do the white middle class or rural poor any fucking good if they can't pay their bills.

Jefferson hated big banks. He died in debt. Now while he was a great politician, nobody should be a victim to predatory policies. 

If your economic policy is "suck to be you" or "you're on your own", you don't even understand why sick assholes like Napoleon or Stalin rose. Like other life, if one species becomes invasive it upsets the entire ecosystem. The American Revolution happened for the same reason the Russian revolution did. Simply knocking a power down, does not ensure that what arises out of the ashes will be what you personally want.

In the west, what we have done better, even if not perfectly is insist on anti monopoly concepts and checks on power. 


In this moment in history, we are being controlled by money. The same money that bullied government that lead to the Great Depression. The same money that lead to Bush's Great Recession. 

Stalin and Hitler and Napoleon all played on blind loyalty and hyper nationalism.

(June 27, 2018 at 12:58 pm)Cathooloo Wrote:
(June 27, 2018 at 10:03 am)Libertarian God Wrote: Hey at least I'm honest about it! I just don't believe in large government. I think much of it should be privatized such as education, ems and healthcare. At a bare minimum I believe government should serve only a few purposes. That is protect it's people, and it's people's rights. I just want my weed and guns.

BUT....that is how I feel. Don't hurt me Confused

Then quite frankly, you're part of the problem.

We are making weed legal, but it should be regulated just like you cant drive drunk. As far as guns, only a moron thinks we don't have enough. BOTH can be legal and regulated without a wild west no rules attitude.

I agree, Libertarian God is part of the problem. And to Libertarian, do not blow smoke up my ass and try to claim we could run our government with 13 representatives as when the country was founded knowing we have 300 million plus and 50 states now.

If you want limited government the BEST way to do that is TO PAY WORKERS A LIVABLE WAGE AND GIVE THEM AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE AND AFFORDABLE EDUCATION. If you want more off of the government dime, THAT IS HOW YOU DO IT!
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