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Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
#41
RE: Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
Anyone can say anything they want within the limits of law and the government's willingness to enforce those laws.

I really don't care.

Yes it's dumb to ask anyone to justify their assertions. Usually they fail, and ignore the reasons why they've failed. The way I see it, don't waste time arguing about something. Give a notification, and if it isn't respected do something.

On the Internet I just ignore them. (Literally. /ignore on IRC or ignore list here.)

By the way, some things can't be reduced to logic. Sometimes it's about values. So before you think you're standing on rock think again.

P.S. Your assertion that I oppose self regulating capitalism is wrong. I do support it, and I'm going to maximize my self interest to the detriment of everyone else if I can. Including you. There was a time for talking. That time has passed. Your cries will fall on deaf ears.
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#42
RE: Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
1. I never said anything about what people can or can not do - This is entirely obfuscation on your part.

2. Your "not caring" means nothing.

3. Because someone fails to justify their assertions we shouldn't ask anyone to justify their assertions? That makes absolutely no sense, especially not on a discussion forum where the reasons behind the belief are usually just as important as the implications.

Anyone who cares about having true beliefs cares about justification, not only for their own positions so they can be sure they are based on good reasoning, but also of the positions others have, especially when they are contrary to our own because that is one of the best opportunities to spot strengths in the other beliefs or to find weaknesses in your own.

Asking for justification is the same as asking for the line of reasoning behind a belief, if you think that's out-of-place on a forum like this then I've got to wonder what you're smoking (and if you have any left over).

4. Arguments help weed out the justified and true beliefs from the false and unjustified ones. It is invaluable to anyone who cares about true beliefs.

5. You ignore people who don't provide reasons? Good for you, but it's besides the point. LWP17 would likely have answered my question which may have lead to further discussion or it may not have, either way I doubt he'd have your "Don't need justification" attitude.

6. Even if some things can't be reduced to logic, good reasons for belief certainly can. This is a case of the latter, so your objections is completely invalid.

7. You having different values is also besides the point. I have to ask though, if you don't think values are logical (or can be described with logic) then what exactly do you think they are?

(December 15, 2010 at 12:01 am)TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote: response to Dotard,



You've swayed me Tongue sorry Dotard.
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#43
RE: Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
1) I never said you shouldn't ask. If that's really what you think I said this whole exchange has been obfuscatory bs.

2) My not caring means a lot. It means I'm not going to do anything I don't have to do.

3) Good luck asking for it then. I still think it's dumb. Your "caring" means nothing.

4) I care about me.

5) He should wise up.

6) Hardly. Values, all though they can explain why someone supports a position, cannot logically justify that position.

7) Simply because something can be described logically doesn't mean it logically proves anything significant, nor does it logically justify that thing.
I broke my own rule. I'm not going to persist in this madness. I have to justify myself to no one.
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#44
RE: Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
(December 15, 2010 at 4:31 pm)lrh9 Wrote: 1) I never said you shouldn't ask. If that's really what you think I said this whole exchange has been obfuscatory bs.

I think you need to look up obfuscation.

And you said "Yes it's dumb to ask anyone to justify their assertions"

Quote:2) My not caring means a lot. It means I'm not going to do anything I don't have to do.

Granted, it doesn't however have any impact on whether or not my asking for justification was appropriate/reasonable.

Quote:3) Good luck asking for it then. I still think it's dumb. Your "caring" means nothing.

1. It's not "dumb", most of the time we get an answer (or at least an attempt) and that was all I asked for.

2. If you think asking for justification is dumb I have to wonder how you manage to have an argument period.

Quote:4) I care about me.

Besides the point

Quote:5) He should wise up.

Aren't you a bitter Betty? It's sort of how debate and argument works, I make a claim, if the other person does not agree they can ask me to justify my claim. Without this process or justification being offered with the argument, nothing can happen.

In case you didn't notice we've been justifying our positions to each other this whole time.

Self-refutation is a bitch, no?

Quote:6) Hardly. Values, all though they can explain why someone supports a position, cannot logically justify that position.

I never said they could, in fact it's often not possible. Values can be (in some models) logically described, but values don't "logically justify" things. Demonstrating a sound and valid argument in support of a position does however justify it.

However, personal values have no impact on the statement in question, that again being "[Politicians] are all corrupt or will be corrupt given enough power and time."

What part of that statement of objective fact (ie it is either true or false) depends on personal value? Absolutely none of it.

Quote:7) Simply because something can be described logically doesn't mean it logically proves anything significant, nor does it logically justify that thing.

If I can logically "describe" a phenomenon (with a sound and valid argument) then it necessarily proves the description of the phenomenon in question is sound and valid

Quote:I broke my own rule. I'm not going to persist in this madness. I have to justify myself to no one.

Your argument is the only sign of madness here.

And i'm not sure you know what Justification means in this context, you don't justify yourself so much as you justify a belief or action. This is a matter of belief so we are necessarily talking about Epistemic justification - whether or not the belief in question is reasonable.
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#45
RE: Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
I'm not going to argue with you. You're not worth it.
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#46
RE: Fun Fact: 6% of Scientists are Republican
Can't concede defeat? Because you've already failed to back up your objection. Unfortunate, I'd thought more of you until now (or the other day actually, when you said you were going to leave because of 'libertarians') - And no I don't expect you to care.
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