If you're pro-life, how far do you take that?

[Angrboda]

I gave two examples of murder that could be said to not harm societies. I don't see how harming an individual is inherently harmful to society. One could argue that robust and powerful societies (like ancient Rome) housed institutions (such as slavery) which were very harmful to individuals within the society. And yet those societies thrived and prospered.

I think you're mixing up civilization and society.   Society is the aggregate of individuals, and harming one of them does harm the aggregate, even if it doesn't harm the aggregate equally.  Some civilizations thrive and prosper in spite of institutions which harm their society, sure.  IDK if slavery is the best example, since we understand that slavery has an immense cost to society and civilization.  

I think you're being pointlessly literal here. Obviously by harming society we mean that there are effects which damage the order and well-being of society as a whole in addition to the harm to the individual.

---

So is there anyone else disturbed by this?

FDA Transplating Aborted Fetus Parts into Mice

Nope, not particularly bothered by it, other than that it's probably not good PR. Do you object to having a murderer have his body donated to science after his execution?

[The Grand Nudger]

We could only say that roman society thrived and prospered if we remove all the slaves (and anyone who didn't prosper) from consideration in the category which is..by definition, the aggregate.  

The underlying contention is that there is some harm to an individual which doesn't harm society, but the example refers to a civilization instead..and -is- an example of harming society by harm to individuals....that just so happened to harm the civilization as well.

I could be less literal, and less specific..and rely on whatever someone thinks is obvious...but......?

I suppose there might be some asshole somewhere we could knock on the head and neither society nor our civilization will notice...but one does wonder whether a society that allows this might be incurring a hidden cost that expresses itself in the fullness of time, as the example of slavery has time and time again.

[Angrboda]

We could only say that roman society thrived and prospered if we remove all the slaves (and anyone who didn't prosper) from consideration in the category which is..by definition, the aggregate.  

The underlying contention is that there is some harm to an individual which doesn't harm society, but the example refers to a civilization instead..and -is- an example of harming society by harm to individuals....that just so happened to harm the civilization as well.  

I could be less literal, and less specific..and rely on whatever someone thinks is obvious...but......?

[The Grand Nudger]

More to the point, springboarding...I'd entertain arguments to that effect when it comes to abortion.  That it somehow damages either our society, our culture, or our way of life.  In sum...thus damaging our entire civilization.  

Assuming that someone could show that it did, we'd then have to consider the effect of the alternative proposal.  We have some idea of the effect, and it's convenient that we decided not that we liked abortion and were pro babykilling...but that the damage done to every relevant category by criminalizing abortion was greater than whatever damage was caused to the delicate sensibilities of the religious. That damage, done to an individual, did hurt society, at least.

We managed to stumble our way through it, though, just as rome did (and as we did) through slavery.

[Minimalist]

So is there anyone else disturbed by this?

FDA Transplating Aborted Fetus Parts into Mice

Nope.  Science does research.  Unlike religion which doesn't do shit.

[Neo-Scholastic]

 Do you object to having a murderer have his body donated to science after his execution?

Yes, unless he or she gave consent prior to their demise.

[The Grand Nudger]

As if they somehow owned their bodies, lol..or something. Executed murderers..I mean, clearly not pregnant females.

[Angrboda]

 Do you object to having a murderer have his body donated to science after his execution?

Yes, unless he or she gave consent prior to their demise.

Okay, how about things that can't consent. Do you object to a family deciding whether the organs of a person in a permanently vegetative state are donated or not?

[brewer]

So is there anyone else disturbed by this?

FDA Transplating Aborted Fetus Parts into Mice

I'm not. 

Is your disturbance some additional moral issue you have because it involves a non human species?

Or is it that you think the government is pushing women to get abortions to make more organs/tissues available?

[Neo-Scholastic]

So is there anyone else disturbed by this?

FDA Transplating Aborted Fetus Parts into Mice

I'm not. 

Is your disturbance some additional moral issue you have because it involves a non human species?

Or is it that you think the government is pushing women to get abortions to make more organs/tissues available?

I believe that anything that could create a profit motive for human organs is highly problematic, particularly the organs of aborted human beings.