Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:19 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:22 pm by Amarok.)
(August 16, 2018 at 11:09 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: (August 16, 2018 at 10:56 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: And killing and torturing him will not bring back 78 kids.
Just wow!
How about we compromise.
We provide him with a noose and then it's his choice: hang himself or rot for life for killing lots of kids. I have already said i'm for prisoners getting to choose death if the find captivity unbearable.
Quote:He will be sufficiently punished for his crimes; hopefully experiencing the same terror and agony he forced upon his victims
That simply begs the question if this is punishment or barbarity ? Once again you start from the presumption the terror and agony are just punishments .I have already said i reject this .Hurting someone else cannot make up for the agony of someone else .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 68907
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:23 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 16, 2018 at 10:59 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I can frame it a different way. We should kill him because he deserves it. I mean, don’t you believe in secular, objective morals? I do, but why would you think that my secular objective morals included a provision for state sponsored murder? It's not as if the existence of objective secular morals means that someone deserves to be killed by fiat.
Quote:If we contend that by violating someones right to this or that they themselves forfeit that same right and we will act in kind..we end up with a spiral of vengeance, not a system of justice. The problems with that sort of thing are profligate..not just in our system but throughout all of human history.
Quote:That’s a bit of a slippery slope, don’t you think?
It's a massive slippery slope..we've gone down it many times. That was exactly why I pointed it out, as yet another reason the death penalty isn't among our brightest ideas. It's the latter part, ofc, that's the offending slope. The first half is simply a recognition that vengeance and justice are not equivalent.
I understand vengeance (I've been known to exact little chunks of it from time to time, lol). I also understand that the death penalty is supposed to be justice...it's part of our justice system..we don't have a vengeance system (ostensibly).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:24 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:26 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:No, but he can feel the pain and fear he brought onto his victims, which is what he deserves.
And i reject the fact he deserves it i argue it has not moral basis .And i repeat you can't agony and fear with agony anf fear .
Quote:I can frame it a different way. We should kill him because he deserves it. I mean, don’t you believe in secular, objective morals?
They idea of just dessert is anything but secular it sounds like the blood atonement of ancient barbarians
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 9916
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:29 pm
(August 16, 2018 at 11:19 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (August 16, 2018 at 11:09 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Just wow!
How about we compromise.
We provide him with a noose and then it's his choice: hang himself or rot for life for killing lots of kids. I have already said i'm for prisoners getting to choose death if the find captivity unbearable.
Quote:He will be sufficiently punished for his crimes; hopefully experiencing the same terror and agony he forced upon his victims
That simply begs the question if this is punishment or barbarity ? Once again you start from the presumption the terror and agony are just punishments .I have already said i reject this .Hurting someone else cannot make up for the agony of someone else .
It’s called, “getting what you give.”
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 68907
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
161
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:32 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2018 at 11:33 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Which may be emotionally satisfying, but not necessarily just. Which of the two is a capital case supposed to mete out? Visceral satisfaction, or justice?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:32 pm
Quote:It’s called, “getting what you give.”
It's called "killing someone for no moral reason other then it feels right" . Sorry if i'm going to kill someone it's going to have to stand on firmer ground then that.
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 36014
Threads: 210
Joined: August 13, 2012
Reputation:
146
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:39 pm
(August 16, 2018 at 11:32 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:It’s called, “getting what you give.”
It's called "killing someone for no moral reason other then it feels right" . Sorry if i'm going to kill someone it's going to have to stand on firmer ground then that.
Where do I stand on lethal injections?
If they let me, right next to the switch!
Would locking this individual up for the rest of his life bring the 78 kids back?
No. But it might save the lives of future victims.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:45 pm
Quote:Would locking this individual up for the rest of his life bring the 78 kids back?
No. But it might save the lives of future victims.
Assuming there will be any future victims
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 36014
Threads: 210
Joined: August 13, 2012
Reputation:
146
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:46 pm
(August 16, 2018 at 11:32 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:It’s called, “getting what you give.”
It's called "killing someone for no moral reason other then it feels right" . Sorry if i'm going to kill someone it's going to have to stand on firmer ground then that.
You're not doing the killing.
Those hired by those we elect to represent us are.
And I thought we'd moved on from the immorality of cleansing the genepool of scum to disinfecting it by keeping the threats to the genepool locked up?
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
Posts: 36014
Threads: 210
Joined: August 13, 2012
Reputation:
146
RE: The death penalty makes no sense.
August 16, 2018 at 11:47 pm
(August 16, 2018 at 11:45 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:Would locking this individual up for the rest of his life bring the 78 kids back?
No. But it might save the lives of future victims.
Assuming there will be any future victims
And what if he's released and there are?
What are you going to say to the families of the victims?
"Ooops! Sorry?"
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
|
