Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:05 pm
Quote:If you could read someone's mind and you could see that they hated gay people and black people and wished ill will upon them (though he didn't make it outwardly shown), wouldn't you still have a negative opinion about his character? Or would you say that since this is all in his mind, that it doesn't matter at all and plays 0 role in the type of person that he is?
He can think any vile thing he likes it no reason to punish him
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:17 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Quote:If you could read someone's mind and you could see that they hated gay people and black people and wished ill will upon them (though he didn't make it outwardly shown), wouldn't you still have a negative opinion about his character? Or would you say that since this is all in his mind, that it doesn't matter at all and plays 0 role in the type of person that he is?
He can think any vile thing he likes it no reason to punish him
That is not what I asked.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm
(This post was last modified: August 27, 2018 at 3:28 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 27, 2018 at 2:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, people in hell are actively choosing eternal agony and suffering over god? That doesn’t make any sense.
It's not all about whoring and murder. There are perverse pleasures in sin. That is why people spread malicious gossip, express self-righteous anger, show contempt for their 'inferiors', revel in feelings of self-importance, obsess over their appearances, or have to be the center of attention. Imagine a party filled with those kinds of people where everyone trying make the most clever comment, the most cutting insult, or making showy outrage over perceived slights. Hell is a big party for people who are all about me, me, me, me me. It draws them in like flypaper, stuck on up-staging everyone else.
And what is Heaven other than a community of people who see that it's not all about themselves, their family, their tribe, or nation; but rather, that there is something bigger and more important than all that. They are living together in Truth and loving the highest Good.
<insert profound quote here>
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:46 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 27, 2018 at 2:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, people in hell are actively choosing eternal agony and suffering over god? That doesn’t make any sense.
It's not all about whoring and murder. There are perverse pleasures in sin. That is why people spread malicious gossip, express self-righteous anger, show contempt for their 'inferiors', revel in feelings of self-importance, obsess over their appearances, or have to be the center of attention. Imagine a party filled with those kinds of people where everyone trying make the most clever comment, the most cutting insult, or making showy outrage over perceived slights. Hell is a big party for people who are all about me, me, me, me me. It draws them in like flypaper, stuck on up-staging everyone else.
And what is Heaven other than a community of people who see that it's not all about themselves, their family, their tribe, or nation; but rather, that there is something bigger and more important than all that. They are living together in Truth and loving the highest Good.
And yet, according to your religion, practicing Buddhists who have overcome the 'me, me, me, me' syndrome (not to mention whoring and murder) will share the same fate as those who haven't. Are they in love with some venal sins you haven't mentioned? Or is it just that they, too, don't buy the Christian-approved diagnosis/prescription for what ails us?
Dress it up as you will, but the bottom line here is disbelief in your story. In other words, thought crimes.
Posts: 16835
Threads: 461
Joined: March 29, 2015
Reputation:
30
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:48 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Imagine a party filled with those kinds of people where everyone trying make the most clever comment
Sure, we all know how Christians hate clever people because they make them look stupid.
(August 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Hell is a big party for people who are all about me, me, me, me me.
It is all about you, you, you, because Bible gives clear descriptions of Hell being an everlasting fire where people are burning and yet you ignore it all and imagine Hell to be what you want it to be.
Matthew 13:50
and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:54 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 3:17 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 27, 2018 at 3:05 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: He can think any vile thing he likes it no reason to punish him
That is not what I asked. Yes you did and my answer is the same it does not matter what his thoughts are he doesn't deserve to be punished for thinking them
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 3:55 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 3:54 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: (August 27, 2018 at 3:17 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That is not what I asked. Yes you did and my answer is the same it does not matter what his thoughts are he doesn't deserve to be punished for thinking them
No, it wasn't. But that's ok. The question wasn't for you anyway.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation:
43
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 4:02 pm
(This post was last modified: August 27, 2018 at 4:05 pm by Amarok.)
Quote:It's not all about whoring and murder.
The fact the first one is even considered a sin says it all
Quote:There are perverse pleasures in sin. That is why people spread malicious gossip, express self-righteous anger, show contempt for their 'inferiors', revel in feelings of self-importance, obsess over their appearances, or have to be the center of attention. Imagine a party filled with those kinds of people where everyone trying make the most clever comment, the most cutting insult, or making showy outrage over perceived slights. Hell is a big party for people who are all about me, me, me, me me. It draws them in like flypaper, stuck on up-staging everyone else.
So people who are not complete robots or slaves, and actually value themselves to some degree more proof you gods a control freak because he can't let anyone else be in control of themselves or have value in themselves .
Quote:And what is Heaven other than a community of people who see that it's not all about themselves, their family, their tribe, or nation; but rather, that there is something bigger and more important than all that. They are living together in Truth and loving the highest Good.
So people who are robots or slaves more proof your god is a tyrant or an abusive husband who wants it to be all about him him him him him ....
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Posts: 2412
Threads: 5
Joined: January 3, 2018
Reputation:
22
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 4:10 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 27, 2018 at 2:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, people in hell are actively choosing eternal agony and suffering over god? That doesn’t make any sense.
It's not all about whoring and murder. There are perverse pleasures in sin. That is why people spread malicious gossip, express self-righteous anger, show contempt for their 'inferiors', revel in feelings of self-importance, obsess over their appearances, or have to be the center of attention. Imagine a party filled with those kinds of people where everyone trying make the most clever comment, the most cutting insult, or making showy outrage over perceived slights. Hell is a big party for people who are all about me, me, me, me me. It draws them in like flypaper, stuck on up-staging everyone else.
And what is Heaven other than a community of people who see that it's not all about themselves, their family, their tribe, or nation; but rather, that there is something bigger and more important than all that. They are living together in Truth and loving the highest Good.
Reminds me of Sartre's 'No Exit'. Hell is other people.
Posts: 7568
Threads: 20
Joined: July 26, 2013
Reputation:
54
RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 27, 2018 at 4:12 pm
(August 27, 2018 at 4:10 pm)polymath257 Wrote: (August 27, 2018 at 3:22 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: It's not all about whoring and murder. There are perverse pleasures in sin. That is why people spread malicious gossip, express self-righteous anger, show contempt for their 'inferiors', revel in feelings of self-importance, obsess over their appearances, or have to be the center of attention. Imagine a party filled with those kinds of people where everyone trying make the most clever comment, the most cutting insult, or making showy outrage over perceived slights. Hell is a big party for people who are all about me, me, me, me me. It draws them in like flypaper, stuck on up-staging everyone else.
And what is Heaven other than a community of people who see that it's not all about themselves, their family, their tribe, or nation; but rather, that there is something bigger and more important than all that. They are living together in Truth and loving the highest Good.
Reminds me of Sartre's 'No Exit'. Hell is other people.
And to think . . . Sartre didn't live long enough to see internet comments sections.
|
