On Hell and Forgiveness

[Neo-Scholastic]

Yeah, sure, it says that. Now tell us its significance as part of the biblical narrative.

I don't have to in order to sustain my point. But if you feel it affects my point any, why don't you demonstrate how. Otherwise this is just a red herring.

Congratulations on the shallow childishness of your point.

[Rhondazvous]

Go ahead, divorce that whole story (Gen 6) from God's holiness/justice/love/mercy and make the case for 'emotions'.

God says quite explicitly in Genesis 6 that he will blot them out "for I am sorry that I made them."  It couldn't be any plainer than that Steve.  Action, followed by cause.  You can certainly suggest that his wiping them out was just, but God is quite clear on his motive here.

It's rather odd that an all knowing god who knows the future can do something and then regret that he did it. His wisdom is supposed to be greater than mine, yet I wouldn't jump off a cliff and on the way down regret that I jumped.

I'm not all knowing or all powerful, so I sometimes do things that have unforeseen consequences, so I am subject to regrets. For an all knowing, all powerful deity to do something and then regret it is not a sign of wisdom or justice.

[Angrboda]

I don't have to in order to sustain my point.  But if you feel it affects my point any, why don't you demonstrate how.  Otherwise this is just a red herring.

Congratulations on the shallow childishness of your point.

So in other words, you don't have anything to add and you're just jerking off as usual. Carry on.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Congratulations on the shallow childishness of your point.

So in other words, you don't have anything to add and you're just jerking off as usual.  Carry on.

I am not saying that you are personally childish but that the point you are trying to make is both trivial and naive. And it appears motivated by a desire to win a debate by resorting to insults and arguments of convenience rather than engage in constructive dialog. Everyone knows that God is presented in many different and often puzzling ways throughout the biblical texts. If your point is that these old stories should be dismissed just because they are challenging then it doesn't show much respect for the greatest thinkers of the past. That just puts you in the same category as Robvalue, who seems to believe that his arrogant YouTube analyses remotely compare with the insights of Maimonides and Hillel the Elder.

Similarly, if all you get from reading two verses that appear to contradict is a reason to dismiss the entire canon then you truly have not taken the text seriously. It boggles my mind how shallow modern critics, such as infidels.org and those who somehow think they are clever, believe the most educated scribes and scholars of the ancient world, those who compiled these stories, were simpletons. The thinkers of antiquity could not have been completely unaware of the apparent discrepancies within the texts they exhaustively studied and scrutinized. These are old, old stories reflecting a body of collective wisdom handed down over centuries. Their persistence testifies not simply to geo-political circumstances but to the profound insights about the human condition they contain, insights that speaks across generations and around the world. That is not because they are easy. They are difficult and convicting.

It amazes me that the verses you quoted can be a starting point for SteveII to contemplate the relationship between Justice and Mercy while they prompt me to reflect on the relationship between kenosis and the impassibility of God. As I see it that isn’t us reading into the text; but rather, it reveals the depth of the riches to be found within even a few simple lines. YMMV, obviously.

[Whateverist]

God says quite explicitly in Genesis 6 that he will blot them out "for I am sorry that I made them."  It couldn't be any plainer than that Steve.  Action, followed by cause.  You can certainly suggest that his wiping them out was just, but God is quite clear on his motive here.

Yeah, sure, it says that. Now tell us its significance as part of the biblical narrative.

Or maybe start by making clear which possible bible narrative you'd like to support.  Extra credit if you can tell us why your preferred bible narrative is preferable.

---

It seems to me that a lot of luck is involved. Let's pretend I'm a Christian, and I'm the right denomination that gets to go into heaven. I have to atone for sins or else I get refused entry. I need to do this periodically, because as we all know, humans are incapable of being sinless.

So what happens if I suddenly die right after committing some minor sin, before I've had the chance to atone for it? Presumably, I'm fucked. I need to die in such a way that I have enough time to scramble for forgiveness before I pop off. If I just drop dead, or get shot in the head, then off to hell I go.

I would say that you cannot atone for your sins, so no worries.  That is why you need Christ; to be the atonement.

I wonder how frequently one needs to change their sacrifice lamb in order to maintain atonement value?

[The Grand Nudger]

Once every thousand years or so, it seems.  We're long overdue.  Who should we string up next? 

[Whateverist]

Once every thousand years or so, it seems.  We're long overdue.  Who should we string up next? 

Obviously Trump.  Think of the gnashing of teeth that would bring on.

[The Grand Nudger]

He does keep telling us that the foundations of the temple will crack if we drag him through the public square like a common traitor.

[Angrboda]

So in other words, you don't have anything to add and you're just jerking off as usual.  Carry on.

I am not saying that you are personally childish but that the point you are trying to make is both trivial and naive. And it appears motivated by a desire to win a debate by resorting to insults and arguments of convenience rather than engage in constructive dialog. Everyone knows that God is presented in many different and often puzzling ways throughout the biblical texts. If your point is that these old stories should be dismissed just because they are challenging then it doesn't show much respect for the greatest thinkers of the past. That just puts you in the same category as Robvalue, who seems to believe that his arrogant YouTube analyses remotely compare with the insights of Maimonides and Hillel the Elder.

Similarly, if all you get from reading two verses that appear to contradict is a reason to dismiss the entire canon then you truly have not taken the text seriously. It boggles my mind how shallow modern critics, such as infidels.org and those who somehow think they are clever, believe  the most educated scribes and scholars of the ancient world, those who compiled these stories, were simpletons. The thinkers of antiquity could not have been completely unaware of the apparent discrepancies within the texts they exhaustively studied and scrutinized. These are old, old stories reflecting a body of collective wisdom handed down over centuries. Their persistence testifies not simply to geo-political circumstances but to the profound insights about the human condition they contain, insights that speaks across generations and around the world. That is not because they are easy. They are difficult and convicting.

Since neither of those actually describes my point or what I was doing, they are nothing but straw men, and the charge that you were just jerking off remains. I neither insulted Steve, nor used an argument of convenience. Steve's position was undermined by the biblical text, so I pointed it out. If you have a problem with that and wish to read all sorts of things into my simply quoting two verses from the bible, sans any commentary, then knock yourself out. The rest of us will see it for what it is, a groundless personal attack which you couldn't justify on its merits and so are resorting to making bankrupt and false insinuations about me. Now if you don't have anything of substance to add to the conversation, you can take your personal attacks and kindly fuck off.

[Neo-Scholastic]

If you have a problem with that and wish to read all sorts of things into my simply quoting two verses from the bible, sans any commentary, then knock yourself out.  

"But I wasn't touching my pencil!" (blows again)