On Hell and Forgiveness

[Neo-Scholastic]

1. Man was evil all the time
2. Evil men go to hell (justice)
3. God regrets such events (love)
4. God wiped them all out and started again with Noah (mercy)

Personally, I find this line of reasoning a strange kind of utilitarianism, as if the Deluge was simply a way to prevent more people unnecessarily from suffering Hell by preventing them from even being born. If that was the intent, then why not just smite Cain, who clearly deserved it, and allow the line of Seth to expand in peace.

[Catholic_Lady]

Then how about forming your own argument to counter mine, rather than just making a short post calling me stupid... and then *claiming* that you never just insult people without making an argument attached to it?

Listen, you can insult people all you want. Just dont lie and expect not to be called out for it. And understand that dishing it and not taking it isn't a good look, and will probably be called out.

Anyway, I've really lost some respect for you and am gonna go ahead and file you away right next to Succumbus. No reason for me to engage with people like that.

The argument was implied by the personal attack. There is no conflict there. And I never claimed that I never insult without an argument attached, only that it is rare, and by no means "all the time." I freely admit there are occasions where I have made personal attacks of that nature, but contrary to your slander which started this discussion, they are not as frequent as you claim. And my comments in that thread certainly don't fall into that category. As to your personal opinion of me, c'est la vie. That seems to be the fate of anyone who criticizes you. I guess we're finding out who really can and can't take it.

Cool beans, yo. Good bye.

[Angrboda]

The argument was implied by the personal attack.  There is no conflict there.  And I never claimed that I never insult without an argument attached, only that it is rare, and by no means "all the time."  I freely admit there are occasions where I have made personal attacks of that nature, but contrary to your slander which started this discussion, they are not as frequent as you claim.  And my comments in that thread certainly don't fall into that category.  As to your personal opinion of me, c'est la vie.  That seems to be the fate of anyone who criticizes you.  I guess we're finding out who really can and can't take it.

Cool beans, yo. Good bye.

I'm sorry you feel that way. But I stand by everything I have said and view your responses as simply unreasonable.

[SteveII]

1. Man was evil all the time
2. Evil men go to hell (justice)
3. God regrets such events (love)
4. God wiped them all out and started again with Noah (mercy)

Personally, I find this line of reasoning a strange kind of utilitarianism, as if the Deluge was simply a way to prevent more people unnecessarily from suffering Hell by preventing them from even being born. If that was the intent, then why not just smite Cain, who clearly deserved it, and allow the line of Seth to expand in peace.

Who knows. Maybe would not have gotten Noah and his extended family. Maybe there were good people a generation or two back. The list was meant to counter a claim that God wiped people out for emotional reasons. Something like 'regret' is informed by underlying principles/expectations that were not met and itself not entirely an emotional response.

[Amarok]

That does not follow more people can believe in something  not evident .Your simply blaming the skeptic and trying to insinuate some personnel failing as the cause  .When it could be just as likely the billion are wrong and the one is right .

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So your in favor of more personnel attacks then ?

Not in the slightest. Just found ironic.

Which it's really not

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I rarely engage in replies that are solely personal attacks.  When I do engage in personal attacks, those personal attacks are usually justified by some matter of substance or are directly relevant to the matter at issue.  Unfortunately for Neo, he has nothing of substance backing his personal attacks here.  I presume your remark is based upon comments I've made to you in the past which you've found insulting.  Unfortunately for you, such personal attacks seem warranted.  You seem to be suggesting that the complaints I have made about you and Neo are unjustified.  If so, I respectfully disagree.  (And no, I do not dish out personal attacks "all the time."  In that you seeem to be simply expressing some butthurt.  I suggest you get over it.)

Yeah ok Jor. Keep dishing it and not taking it. I'll keep making note of it.

And we will keep noting how this statement is false

[Neo-Scholastic]

Personally, I find this line of reasoning a strange kind of utilitarianism, as if the Deluge was simply a way to prevent more people unnecessarily from suffering Hell by preventing them from even being born. If that was the intent, then why not just smite Cain, who clearly deserved it, and allow the line of Seth to expand in peace.

Who knows. Maybe would not have gotten Noah and his extended family. Maybe there were good people a generation or two back. The list was meant to counter a claim that God wiped people out for emotional reasons. Something like 'regret' is informed by underlying principles/expectations that were not met and itself not entirely an emotional response.

And that is the key, not entirely and emotional response. When we as Christians respond to the problem of evil with the notion that this is the best of all possible worlds, then it seems like the act of creation entails pain and suffering. If the Lord was merely the impersonal God of the Philosophers, then It would be an distant and unloving thing. I guess my opinion is that one of the deeper meanings of the Deluge story is that God suffers with us, grieving over His creation and yet redeeming the tragedy of existence by participating in it and giving it purpose through the Cross.

[The Grand Nudger]

The idea that this is the best of all possible worlds is a bit nonsensical..since this world is already fallen from an allegedly better state. In any case, I'm not sure how god is supposed to be suffering as he drowns all the pissants below in anger and regret. If he wanted to suffer with them, maybe he should have drowned himself while he was at it? After all..he's the ultimate source of everything, including whatever the hell they got drowned for.

OTOH, none of that ever happened, so what the fuck, make up whatever you like about what a made up flood means...but it would be silly to get worked up over a person pointing out the narrative discontinuity of whatever you go with.

[Amarok]

The best of all possible worlds is BS the idea that in any possible world there  is moral reason to kill just everyone on the planet because your god is a failure is absurd and don't start that BS of "Only god knows and must have a good reason it's arrogant to not buy the concept there was a good reason blah blah blah blah blah " You either have a good reason or you don't .

[Catholic_Lady]

My thoughts in simpler terms:

Hell exists because God is not a tyrant who is going to force us to choose Him. He gives us the choice to choose God, or to choose "not God."

Hell is not a dark cave with fire and little demons running around torturing you. It is simply a separation from God.

Since God is Himself pure love, by separating our souls from God in the afterlife, you are separating yourself from beauty, joy, and love. That is why Hell sucks. Not because of torture or punishment.

[The Grand Nudger]

God tyranny is love, god torture is not-torture.