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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 10:45 pm
(August 30, 2018 at 10:38 pm)Kit Wrote: (August 30, 2018 at 10:04 pm)alpha male Wrote: As CL pointed out, it's generally accepted - over 80% - that some god is a reality. So, thanks for confirming that theism isn't a delusion.
Argumentum ad populum.
It’s not argumentum ad populum, but addresses the definition given. That would require a different argument which appeals to popularity of a belief.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 10:46 pm
(August 30, 2018 at 10:04 pm)alpha male Wrote: (August 30, 2018 at 5:26 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Yeah CL... the word delusion is connotatively linked to mental disorder, but check the definition...
misconception... misunderstanding... mistake... all synonyms. When separated from its typical association with mental disorder, one can see why an atheist would consider theism "delusional."
As CL pointed out, it's generally accepted - over 80% - that some god is a reality. So, thanks for confirming that theism isn't a delusion.
Bruce Jenner is a woman, OTOH...
Fine then. Only some theists are delusional.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 10:48 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 10:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What I always find amusing..is that you can never tell that the non-delusional ones -are- theists. You actually have to ask or be told.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm
(August 30, 2018 at 10:45 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (August 30, 2018 at 10:38 pm)Kit Wrote: Argumentum ad populum.
It’s not argumentum ad populum, but addresses the definition given. That would require a different argument which appeals to popularity of a belief.
I can't really say this has been the most productive debate. If you are using numbers of adherents to a belief system to qualify it as delusional, then atheists are delusional.
If adherence to what is plausibly real is your metric, theists are.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 10:53 pm
(August 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: (August 30, 2018 at 10:45 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: It’s not argumentum ad populum, but addresses the definition given. That would require a different argument which appeals to popularity of a belief.
I can't really say this has been the most productive debate. If you are using numbers of adherents to a belief system to qualify it as delusional, then atheists are delusional.
If adherence to what is plausibly real is your metric, theists are.
What one finds plausible is highly subjective. Personally I don’t think you are going to get anywhere by just calling a large group of people delusional, and that you need to support your claim with more than personal opinions.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 10:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 10:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
@Vulcan
No no no, because deism - deism is..somehow, a defense of the delusional nature of theism.
@Road,
Lets not pretend that any amount of support is meaningful to you. I could haul your ass up to gods throne, show you that its empty..and you'd think that maybe he just went out for lunch or something. It's your entire schtick, about everything god related. Fair enough, but at least own it, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 11:03 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 11:04 pm by vulcanlogician.)
(August 30, 2018 at 10:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (August 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I can't really say this has been the most productive debate. If you are using numbers of adherents to a belief system to qualify it as delusional, then atheists are delusional.
If adherence to what is plausibly real is your metric, theists are.
What one finds plausible is highly subjective. Personally I don’t think you are going to get anywhere by just calling a large group of people delusional, and that you need to support your claim with more than personal opinions.
But I didn't, RR. I don't even know who brought the word delusional into it. Then the discussion devolved into delusion being defined as a matter of public opinion. Then Alpha Male came in and said that he stands united with the Muslims and Hindus (for a moment) in order to prove a point that theism isn't a delusion, and I then got annoyed.
Let me put it this way. If theists are wrong, and there is no God up there listening to their prayers, giving them a good parking spot at Walmart, and driving grandma's cancer into remission, then one can safely say that theists are experiencing some sort of delusion.
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 11:06 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 11:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I've got a handy dandy super authoritative field reference ID guide from the godless agenda. 
Deist - Just Wrong
Theist- Delusional
Fundamentalist - Batshit Crazy
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 11:14 pm
(August 30, 2018 at 11:03 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: (August 30, 2018 at 10:53 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: What one finds plausible is highly subjective. Personally I don’t think you are going to get anywhere by just calling a large group of people delusional, and that you need to support your claim with more than personal opinions.
But I didn't, RR. I don't even know who brought the word delusional into it. Then the discussion devolved into delusion being defined as a matter of public opinion. Then Alpha Male came in and said that he stands united with the Muslims and Hindus (for a moment) in order to prove a point that theism isn't a delusion, and I then got annoyed.
Let me put it this way. If theists are wrong, and there is no God up there listening to their prayers, giving them a good parking spot at Walmart, and driving grandma's cancer into remission, then one can safely say that theists are experiencing some sort of delusion.
Yes, Paul said, that if Christ was not risen from the dead, then we where a group to be pitied.
I tend to agree with you about people making a big deal about a parking spot suddenly opening up, however I think you should realize that Christians are always looking to God.
As long as you are prefixing your hypothetical with the word “if”, then the reverse would also be true. But now it would seem that we are getting into Pascal’s wager.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 11:27 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 11:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Pity party is is, then. You bring the balloons..I'll bring the dick jokes?
Unfortunately, the reverse would not be true. If there's a god..I'm just wrong. I'm not experiencing anything - probably part of why I don't believe..don't you think?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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