Reason Jesus must have been a real person

[Minimalist]

Christopher Hitchens, for example, has said he thinks Jesus was a real person and there must be some background to the myth of the Resurrection because there's no way an author would make women so important to the story (ie, Mary Magdalene finding the empty tomb, etc).

No, Hitchens was wrong on that mainly because he does not seem to understand what was going on.

First off, there are not 4 gospel stories, there is only 1.  The so-called "mark."  The others are later expansions or re-writes of the basic story.  For what ever reason, "mark" set his story in the early first century AD during the prefecture of Pontius Pilate which ended in 37 AD when he was removed from office by then Governor of Syria Lucius Vitellius Veteris.  So we have the terminus ad quem for the story.  Mark was initially composed in Greek, for a Greco-Roman audience probably in Antioch, Syria.  The "when" is just as much of a problem.  Xtians try to insist that it was written in 70 AD because of the Little Apocalypse but that is merely the earliest possible date.  It could just as easily have been written near 130 AD when Hadrian got the great idea of leveling the ruins of Jerusalem to build them a new city, which he called Aelia Capitolina.  Either way, it does not matter.  Because of the existence of 5 different endings for mark....apparently later xhristards couldn't stand the original ending...it is clear that the original story ended at 16:8.

Mark 16:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

(In case your forgot.)

Whoever wrote "mark" had to explain why, some 40-100 years later, depending on point-of-view, people were just hearing this story.  His solution was to have a bunch of silly women be the witnesses who disobeyed orders and kept silent.  It's always the woman's fault as the republicunts are trying to prove with Kavanaugh!

[Dancefortwo]

Christopher Hitchens, for example, has said he thinks Jesus was a real person and there must be some background to the myth of the Resurrection because there's no way an author would make women so important to the story (ie, Mary Magdalene finding the empty tomb, etc).

No, Hitchens was wrong on that mainly because he does not seem to understand what was going on.

First off, there are not 4 gospel stories, there is only 1.  The so-called "mark."  The others are later expansions or re-writes of the basic story.  For what ever reason, "mark" set his story in the early first century AD during the prefecture of Pontius Pilate which ended in 37 AD when he was removed from office by then Governor of Syria Lucius Vitellius Veteris.  So we have the terminus ad quem for the story.  Mark was initially composed in Greek, for a Greco-Roman audience probably in Antioch, Syria.  The "when" is just as much of a problem.  Xtians try to insist that it was written in 70 AD because of the Little Apocalypse but that is merely the earliest possible date.  It could just as easily have been written near 130 AD when Hadrian got the great idea of leveling the ruins of Jerusalem to build them a new city, which he called Aelia Capitolina.  Either way, it does not matter.  Because of the existence of 5 different endings for mark....apparently later xhristards couldn't stand the original ending...it is clear that the original story ended at 16:8.

Mark 16:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

(In case your forgot.)

Whoever wrote "mark" had to explain why, some 40-100 years later, depending on point-of-view, people were just hearing this story.  His solution was to have a bunch of silly women be the witnesses who disobeyed orders and kept silent.  It's always the woman's fault as the republicunts are trying to prove with Kavanaugh!

Plus, whoever wrote Mark didn't know his way around Palenstine so it's doubtful he ever lived or visited there.  His geographical errors are confusing and just plain wrong.    Also the last few lines of Mark were written and  added sometime after 325 ACE.    None of this story makes any sense.

[Minimalist]

Jesus needed a GPS.  Seems like a strange weakness for a "god."

[CapnAwesome]

Christopher Hitchens, for example, has said he thinks Jesus was a real person and there must be some background to the myth of the Resurrection because there's no way an author would make women so important to the story (ie, Mary Magdalene finding the empty tomb, etc).

No, Hitchens was wrong on that mainly because he does not seem to understand what was going on.

First off, there are not 4 gospel stories, there is only 1.  The so-called "mark."  The others are later expansions or re-writes of the basic story.  For what ever reason, "mark" set his story in the early first century AD during the prefecture of Pontius Pilate which ended in 37 AD when he was removed from office by then Governor of Syria Lucius Vitellius Veteris.  So we have the terminus ad quem for the story.  Mark was initially composed in Greek, for a Greco-Roman audience probably in Antioch, Syria.  The "when" is just as much of a problem.  Xtians try to insist that it was written in 70 AD because of the Little Apocalypse but that is merely the earliest possible date.  It could just as easily have been written near 130 AD when Hadrian got the great idea of leveling the ruins of Jerusalem to build them a new city, which he called Aelia Capitolina.  Either way, it does not matter.  Because of the existence of 5 different endings for mark....apparently later xhristards couldn't stand the original ending...it is clear that the original story ended at 16:8.

Mark 16:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

(In case your forgot.)

Whoever wrote "mark" had to explain why, some 40-100 years later, depending on point-of-view, people were just hearing this story.  His solution was to have a bunch of silly women be the witnesses who disobeyed orders and kept silent.  It's always the woman's fault as the republicunts are trying to prove with Kavanaugh!

Lol at slipping in a Kavanaugh reference there.

[Minimalist]

I believe in piling on, Cap'n!

[Aliza]

There have been several theories proposed that Jesus was not a real person. For example, he is a divine being that lived his life in the space between heaven and earth.  I think Richard Carrier proposed this.

So one question I have, is if Jesus was completely made up, why is his name "Jesus"?
I would think based on prophecy, a 'fake' Jesus would have been named Immanuel.  Not Jesus.
If you are going to make it up, you would make it up so that minor discrepancies such as this would be avoided.

Don't you think, then, that the gospels were at least based on a real person?

Your people come up with all sorts of reasons to explain these things away. None of them address the problem of your messiah simply not being the messiah that the Jewish people were waiting for. The un-fucked-with version of the bible paints a very different picture of who the messiah was supposed to be. Learn what the un-fucked-with version says, then compare that to what the Christians say, and you may feel you have good reason to believe that Jesus was a made up person.

[Minimalist]

So wait.... you're saying that there is an un-fucked with version?

The things you learn around here.

[Aliza]

So wait.... you're saying that there is an un-fucked with version?

The things you learn around here.

Uhm... yes? I thought you've studied religion. Christians put right in the front of their bibles that it "comes from the original tongues." Christians believe that the Torah predates the Christian testament. They have no problem learning Latin, but learning Hebrew is too challenging for them. Wonder why.... And even if we can't agree to read the Jewish version, I can still make the case that Jesus wasn't a real person with their own Christian translation. In their zeal to keep as much of the original content as possible, while also trying to appeal to a mostly gentile audience, they left some rather revealing boo-boos in the text.

[Dancefortwo]

So wait.... you're saying that there is an un-fucked with version?

The things you learn around here.

Uhm... yes? I thought you've studied religion. Christians put right in the front of their bibles that it "comes from the original tongues." Christians believe that the Torah predates the Christian testament. They have no problem learning Latin, but learning Hebrew is too challenging for them. Wonder why.... And even if we can't agree to read the Jewish version, I can still make the case that Jesus wasn't a real person with their own Christian translation. In their zeal to keep as much of the original content as possible, while also trying to appeal to a mostly gentile audience, they left some rather revealing boo-boos in the text.

Ah yes, the Isaiah 7:14 debacle of mistranslations.  Please Aliza, do your magic and explain this to the good folks.

[Aliza]

Uhm... yes? I thought you've studied religion. Christians put right in the front of their bibles that it "comes from the original tongues." Christians believe that the Torah predates the Christian testament. They have no problem learning Latin, but learning Hebrew is too challenging for them. Wonder why.... And even if we can't agree to read the Jewish version, I can still make the case that Jesus wasn't a real person with their own Christian translation. In their zeal to keep as much of the original content as possible, while also trying to appeal to a mostly gentile audience, they left some rather revealing boo-boos in the text.

Ah yes, the Isaiah 7:14 debacle of mistranslations.  Please Aliza, do your magic and explain this to the good folks.

And the problem with John the Baptist's father naming him as a baby, the problem with rest of the merry men, the open sins these guys committed, the blasphemy they spoke out in the open, and the style of specific style of miracles from the Tanach which is unrecognizable from the style of miracles in the Christian Testament. The lies that Paul told about his "illustrious" Jewish education that never taught him how to read or write Hebrew or what to look for in the Jewish messiah, and the problem of G-d making rules about raping women and made it especially damaging to have sex with another man's wife. Mary was, according to JEwish, law married to Joseph when G-d banged her and knocked her up with this supposed guy, Jesus.

For now, it's 3am for me. I need to sleep.