Peterson's 12 Rules for Life v2.0-- actual book discussion

[GrandizerII]

If you can afford a computer and an internet connection, there's a starving kid out there who's missing a meal.  I'll bet your yearly snack budget could feed little Akbar for about 10 years, no?

Sure. I've donated money for kids in need. I also give coins to homeless people when I have some with me.

Are black people in the U.S. struggling?  They have free schooling, no?  A welfare system?  Something like a basic health car system?  Did you earn all of the benefits that citizenship in your country (I'm assuming the US) provides?  Or was it handed to you by those who succeeded in establishing those systems before you?

Black people are copping shit in the US, in Australia, and elsewhere.

And no, I didn't earn any of the benefits granted to me because of my citizenship (I live in Australia), but I'm thankful that I have these benefits.

Should I be deeply concerned about inequity in the world?

It does bother me, but I'm not asking you to feel the same way I do. If you can't be concerned, then you can't. That's not the point, though.

Which should I focus on-- black people who can't get into college due to low SAT scores (oh the racism!), or the families of brown people who were bombed to shit by American drones, and are sifting through mountains of rubble for garbage that they hope will be edible?

Perhaps some honest self-reflection would be a better idea.

Should I draw the line at the human species?  What about the millions of livestock who literally live in shit, restrained even from moving, so you can have your daily Big Mac?  Am I required to care about them, as well?

Again, you're not required to care about anything you don't care about. All I'm saying really is that you're simply misguided when it comes to this topic, and that you're being misled by the likes of Peterson. Perhaps it's got something to do with what Khem calls "white man anxiety", I don't know. But you ain't a sociologist (or a social psychologist) and neither is Peterson, for that matter.

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While that was once the case, it certainly isn't so any more, unless you count our police as a military force.  It doesn't take a battalion of infantry to maintain privilege anymore than it takes an army of calorie burning racists.


The type of privilege being discussed by the term "white privilege" most certainly is, and demonstrably exists.  Until you can get past this anxious hurdle you will not be able to cogently comment on -that- privilege.  It is a bag of tangible assets, conferred by identification as white.

In the case that Jordan Peterson was talking about the woman listed being able to move house where she wants to as an example of a tangible asset confered by identification as being white.

This is false for the obvious reason that it isn't granted to white people and she didn't get that privilege by being white.

Yeah, these landlords sure do not have a problem at all with letting a person of any ethnicity into their property, eh? It's not like a landlord has never requested from their agents not to consider Indian or Asian or black people. It's all fiction, after all.

[paulpablo]

If you can afford a computer and an internet connection, there's a starving kid out there who's missing a meal.  I'll bet your yearly snack budget could feed little Akbar for about 10 years, no?

Sure. I've donated money for kids in need. I also give coins to homeless people when I have some with me.

Are black people in the U.S. struggling?  They have free schooling, no?  A welfare system?  Something like a basic health car system?  Did you earn all of the benefits that citizenship in your country (I'm assuming the US) provides?  Or was it handed to you by those who succeeded in establishing those systems before you?

Black people are copping shit in the US, in Australia, and elsewhere.

And no, I didn't earn any of the benefits granted to me because of my citizenship (I live in Australia), but I'm thankful that I have these benefits.

Should I be deeply concerned about inequity in the world?

It does bother me, but I'm not asking you to feel the same way I do. If you can't be concerned, then you can't. That's not the point, though.

Which should I focus on-- black people who can't get into college due to low SAT scores (oh the racism!), or the families of brown people who were bombed to shit by American drones, and are sifting through mountains of rubble for garbage that they hope will be edible?

Perhaps some honest self-reflection would be a better idea.

Should I draw the line at the human species?  What about the millions of livestock who literally live in shit, restrained even from moving, so you can have your daily Big Mac?  Am I required to care about them, as well?

Again, you're not required to care about anything you don't care about. All I'm saying really is that you're simply misguided when it comes to this topic, and that you're being misled by the likes of Peterson. Perhaps it's got something to do with what Khem calls "white man anxiety", I don't know. But you ain't a sociologist (or a social psychologist) and neither is Peterson, for that matter.

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In the case that Jordan Peterson was talking about the woman listed being able to move house where she wants to as an example of a tangible asset confered by identification as being white.

This is false for the obvious reason that it isn't granted to white people and she didn't get that privilege by being white.

Yeah, these landlords sure do not have a problem at all with letting a person of any ethnicity into their property, eh? It's not like a landlord has never requested from their agents not to consider Indian or Asian or black people. It's all fiction, after all.

I imagine those things happen all the time.

[The Grand Nudger]

White privilege being the polar opposite of racial discrimination...do you understand why the term applies in this example, that you've imagined happens all the time?

[paulpablo]

White privilege being the polar opposite of racial discrimination...do you understand why the term applies in this example, that you've imagined happens all the time?

It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement.

[GrandizerII]

White privilege being the polar opposite of racial discrimination...do you understand why the term applies in this example, that you've imagined happens all the time?

It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement.

How often do you hear of a seller or landlord not wanting a good old white man to buy/rent their place?

You live in the UK, right? Do you also imagine this happening all the time?

Estate agents discriminate against black people, finds BBC investigation

[The Grand Nudger]

White privilege being the polar opposite of racial discrimination...do you understand why the term applies in this example, that you've imagined happens all the time?

It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement.

What you mean to say is that you don't understand.  It's because you don't understand that you think it doesn't, lol.

White privilege is not the notion that houses get handed out in exchange for privilege tokens. It is the fact that whites do not have to deal with the structural or personal racism that non whites face. This is a limit on other peoples choice of residence. In precisely the same way that this is a limitation on others options, it is an unearned and tangible asset to those identified as white.

Cue the "Yabut, that's x and y and z privilege!"

[paulpablo]

It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement.

How often do you hear of a seller or landlord not wanting a good old white man to buy/rent their place?

You live in the UK, right? Do you also imagine this happening all the time?

Estate agents discriminate against black people, finds BBC investigation

 In general people who are owners and in the majority can pull all types of discrimination and scams, yeh I think it happens to white people but the UK is a white majority place and the owners of those houses I imagine are white.  

In my area a random Pakistani passer by knocked on the door and told my parents we should move out because the area isn't for white people anymore. It's a Pakistani majority area and some of them aren't keen on white people.  So that kind of attitude of excluding people of a differing ethnic background happens a lot.

Talking about the three races you mentioned, Black, Asian, Indian.  I imagine Black people living in India or further east in Asia have been discriminated against, no white people included.  It will happen whoever is in the majority or whoever owns the property in general.

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It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement.

What you mean to say is that you don't understand.  It's because you don't understand that you think it doesn't, lol.

I didn't say it doesn't.

[The Grand Nudger]

I didn't say it doesn't.

..........................................................?

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White privilege being the polar opposite of racial discrimination...do you understand why the term applies in this example, that you've imagined happens all the time?

It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement.

[paulpablo]

I didn't say it doesn't.

..........................................................?

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It doesn't.  The example could completely exclude any white involvement

I thought you were talking about a different bit of what I said.
Yeh the example could exclude any white involvement, therefore I don't see the term white privilege as being applicable if a black landlord discriminates against a Korean or a black person can't buy property in India.

[GrandizerII]

In general people who are owners and in the majority can pull all types of discrimination and scams, yeh I think it happens to white people but the UK is a white majority place and the owners of those houses I imagine are white.

Again, majority is not what this is about.

In my area a random Pakistani passer by knocked on the door and told my parents we should move out because the area isn't for white people anymore.  So that kind of attitude of excluding people of a differing ethnic background happens a lot.

That's not the same as landlords and agents discriminating against nonwhite tenants.

Talking about the three races you mentioned, Black, Asian, Indian.  I imagine Black people living in India or further east in Asia have been discriminated against, no white people included.  It will happen whoever is in the majority or whoever owns the property in general.

So what? This isn't a contradiction of white privilege.