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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
September 30, 2018 at 1:57 pm
So if I'm interpreting the OP right.... it's saying that the fact that miracles are difficult to confirm by most people in the modern day means that people are quite justified in not believing them and, hence, not believing in the religion they supposedly support, and, religious people should be tolerant and accepting of that disbelief.
*reads down* Yeah, okay, confirmed by the OP at several points.
....
While I don't believe the miracles happened, and I lack the same cultural reference to grasp many of similes to prophets being put forth, I'll definitely agree with the overall point. Failing to believe in a miracle-claim just because of third-or-fourth-hand accounts is not something to hate a person for.
Being an antipistevist is like being an antipastovist, only with epistemic responsibility instead of bruschetta.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
September 30, 2018 at 1:58 pm
(September 30, 2018 at 1:38 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: The reason miracles aren't in the open is because people are less credulous today than people in the past. The conclusion is that miracles aren't in the open today, not because the occurrence of miracles has changed, but because people have changed such that they no longer mistakenly see miracles where there are none. That you choose to believe less reliable evidence rather than the more reliable modern situation is because you will believe regardless of whether it's rational to do so or not. You need religion because you are not strong. Your panicked inability to handle more than two weeks of ambiguity over the truth as an atheist shows that. You are a weak willed and deluded person who believes because it fulfills his needs, not because it is true.
Um no. People still widely claim them, even today. I'd only agree that there is more skepticism today that is more open.
In today's age of technology it is harder for old superstitions to go unchallenged.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 1:31 am
There are no miracles. People look for miracles to support their beliefs. Once those beliefs are gone, miracles are exposed for what they are, fabricated bullshit, or at best a lack of understanding.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 1:36 am
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2018 at 1:37 am by robvalue.)
There's no way to confirm a miracle. There are just people claiming such and such happened, and that it can't have happened except by God doing it. Classic argument from ignorance.
It's weird how the God from each religion performs miracles for its followers, yet they all claim theirs is the only God. That means that all these religions, except one at most, don't actually have any miracles going on. This shows people can easily think they are going on when they are not.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 2:09 am
A miracle would be MK putting all this woo aside and attempting a real relationship with an atheist woman.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 2:57 am
The only miracle I would accept is if all theists around the world suddenly became Atheists.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 5:38 am
Miracles don't happen, unfortunately. I'm one of few that say I would love for them to happen, but they don't. All Miracles are "confirmed" by word of mouth only. No photo/video evidence that has ever been produced or seen in a scientific environment.
You only have to compare what is a miracle and what isn't. A western person prays for something good to happen, say winning some money on a scratch card, because they feel like they are "poor" that month. They win on the first one they buy, and say it's a miracle. Yet hundreds/thousands of people are starving around the world, I imagine a lot of which are praying for something to happen, and it doesn't. Why is that? Having travelled to some of these places (countries in Africa) I can attest that the people I met are more "devout" believers than any western ones I have ever met in my life.....so why don't they get things?
What you have here is called "confirmation bias". You pray for something, like a sunny day or a scratch card win or something else completely out of any persons control, and it happens........there fore: you prayed + it happend = miracle/god, right?
What about all those times when you prayed and it didn't happen? What about then? When I was a kid, whilst I wasn't a christian, I was very much aware of "god" and "praying", thanks to my mother and school in particular. I once prayed my heart out one night when I was about 6 for something like a PlayStation or equally as meaningless. It never happened. Why not? Because my family was piss poor and couldn't afford it. If it had happened and by coincidence I had prayed/I had got what I wanted, I probably think [in my 6 year old mind] "holy shit, I can't believe that worked, I'm going to church now, thanks god".
Thats the point really. These miracles only really benefit A) 1 person/set or persons who need something particular or B) wierd shit that doesnt EVER happen (Like a painting of Jesus blinking or bleeding or whatever). Why don't miracles happen where suddenly, entire areas of the world filled with starving and homeless people, are now full of food/shelters? I'd believe "something" happened, if that came to pass. But nope, it's always "man, I prayed so hard last night, and I came into work and I got a raise. Thanks god". Yes, lets thank god for you living in a great capitalist country where you can work up the ladder and your pay is reviewed on a constant basis. Yes that's right.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 5:47 am
(This post was last modified: October 2, 2018 at 5:47 am by Cod.)
People who want to believe in miracles will believe in miracles. Funny thing is these miracles are never very impressive are they? If there had been absolutely zero casualties after the recent earthquake and tsunami that would be what I would class a miracle, unfortunately goddo doesn't seem to be up to that standard.
Prick can't even get me a leg over either.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 9:12 am
Miracles: God interfering to patch mistakes in his own plan.
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RE: Miracles and their place, and Atheists.
October 2, 2018 at 3:36 pm
(September 30, 2018 at 12:21 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: My central point and other things are really irrelevant, is that without miracles in the open, people are excused to not believe in most cases.
My unbelief requires no excuse.
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Dr H
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